[200q20v] Watkins Glen Brakes and Preparation

[Phil Rose]

At 8:21 AM -0400 8/10/01, packley wrote:
>Brakes are tortured at this track, and I was instructing others and checked
>students brakes carefully.
>
>A 1.8T with new pads and slotted rotors was black-flagged because pads
>appeared "on fire " but evidently it was the glue of new pads igniting.
>They cleared out later.


Hi Phil Ackley,
I appreciate the response--it provided quite a number of useful references.

  I attended the NEQ WG event last summer and I learned a bit about 
brake wear "the hard way". In fact,I ended up black-flagging myself 
on the 2nd day-- after the first or second run--when my brakes 
suddenly got extremely spongy and I subsequently discovered there was 
metal-on-metal at **all** front pad surfaces!!!  I'd been using 
oem-type (Remsa) pads with my G60 brakes; however the biggest mistake 
was to start out with pads that were already about 1/3 worn. The 
second big mistake was having a spare set of pads but no spare rotors 
(of course the rotors were badly trashed). Greg Amy kindly offered me 
the use of his (then-new) A6 biturbo for the next run session, and my 
instructor insisted I finish out the day driving his Urq 
(RS2-enhanced 3B). So, thanks to my newbie misjudgements and two very 
cool guys,  I had the privilege of getting to drive two very cool 
Audis. This time around I hope to avoid  brake problems and will plan 
to change pads at the end of day one, if not sooner.

I may also defer the installation of new brake hoses--providing that 
mine presently have no external damage. But the reason has naught to 
do with following Bernie's philosophy (a bit overdone and sometimes 
short-sighted, IMHO). Rather it's because I've decided to do a "big 
brake" upgrade as my Fall-season project. Hence I'll hold off on a 
brake hoses till then and certainly would go with ss-braided lines at 
that time. I sorta promised myself I'd do the brake upgrade right 
after last summer's WG event, but various things got in the way.


>I used two sets of Metalmaster pads!  I would recommend the best pads you
>can get-Pagid is expensive, but they work, Hawk, and Porterfields are good.
>I do not intend to cause a string of comments other than Audi brakes are
>awful for track use.
>
>Use the best pad you can get, you will work them hard.

Yes, I do indeed realize they'll be worked very hard--especially 
considering I'm planning to share the car with my son, Marc (so I'd 
better plan to have two extra sets on hand.) Am I correct that in 
believing that racing pads will not likely deliver longer 
wear--"just" better fade resistance (more consistent braking)? After 
my experience last summer, whatever I use for pads, I will plan to 
give the brakes a close look after *every* run. Last summer my 
instructor pushed (me) pretty hard, and my natural tendency to drive 
aggressively assured that I responded to his prodding by driving and 
braking fairly hard for a first-timer. Once in a while I may have 
been "smooth" as well. :-)


>
>Put the new pads on now, use them all you can, break them in.  The worst
>thing you can do is put new pads on without properly breaking them in.  AP
>recommends easy break in, and use old pads on new rotors. Here is what they
>say: http://www.apracing.com/car/brakedisc/bedding.htm
>

The BIRA website adds some complications to the pad-changing equation:

>  Due to the nature of bedding and the differences between 
>semi-metallic and carbon metallic brake pads, it is not recommended 
>to switch from the carbon pads to the semi-metallic units. Upgrading 
>to carbon metallic pad will require bedding to establish the proper 
>carbon layer on the rotor, but if you must use semi-metallic pads, 
>you will need to wear through this carbon layer. The semi-metallic 
>pads will not grip well at all until this layer is removed.


How would my change from Remsa (silver) oem-type pads to the 
Metalmasters fit in with that consideration? I have no idea which 
composition (carbon or semimetallic) either of those pads is.

>
>Brake upgrade from Bira, etc.
>
>Read Stoptechs page, it is chock full of good information:
>http://www.stoptech.com/
>
>Although I would prefer using Brembo rather than this system, as caliper
>rigidity is not something to worry excessively with a street car.  And
>Porsche rotors are well manufactured.
>
>Tom at Euro Car Service is quite knowledgable and offers the best priced kit
>I have seen:
>http://www.euro-car-service.com/audibrakeupgradepage.htm
>
>Go for the 993TT calipers as it is marginally more expensive than the
>Monobloc and much more capable.

Tom claims to have available an upgrade package for the '91 200q for 
$1350. I don't have specifics on what he includes for that price. The 
933tt caliper package he advertises on the website is listed at over 
$1700.

Well, my G60 brake setup will have to do for the time being.

I'll bring a big jug o' Rainex and look for you at the Seneca Lodge.

Phil R.
-- 

Phil Rose				Rochester, NY
'91 200q				mailto:pjrose at frontiernet.net