[200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!

Tue Jan 30 12:01:51 EST 2001

Paul, My comments below.  Bernie

> From: "Paul Waterloo" <pwaterloo at compuserve.com>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:34:27 -0600
> To: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: [200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!
> 
> Bernie-
> 
> I agree with you regarding the rotor related problem, but here was my
> scenario:
> 
> 1. With 170K on the car and the original UFO's still installed, it was time
> to change them because they were very thin.
> 
> 2. I bought new rotors and pads. They initially had some pulsation because
> they were not perfectly true. After studying the UFO rotor and looking how
> it must be manufactured (the rotor is mounted to the cage while still in the
> ruff stage, then it is mounted in a lathe and turned to size), it would be
> very hard to have them perfectly true when installed on hubs that they
> weren't turned on. Who knows how flat mine were. Probably didn't even clean
> them with a metal brush.
> 
> 3. I figured they would wear true over time, but didn't. The left one got
> really bad and I had it replaced under warranty about six months later. The
> problem still did not go away but it got better after replacing the rotor. I
> knew that the front suspension was not holding true because of worn
> bushings. I believe the manual even states to replace the control arm
> bushings as part of the troubleshooting procedure for warped UFO's.
Yeah, Bentley is hyper over changing the inner control arm bushings to
correct brake shimmy problems, saying every 50K or to correct most any brake
problem.  IMO, this is a smoke screen to hide the fact that they couldn't
figure out the source of the problem.  In my vast experience, with 3 type 44
chassis cars, I have never seen a bad inner control arm bushing.  Maybe our
for-hire wrenches have a broader perspective on this.  In searching for the
cause of excessive neg. camber in these cars, and prior to designing the
'Benz Brace' strut brace, I went so far as to push out a high mileage but
apparently good inner bushing and reinstall it flopped and rotated 180
degrees, proving that bushing creep set did not exist, as this had no effect
on camber setting.

But the roll bar to control arm bushings see large angular missalignment
changes which do fatigue and brake down the rubber, thus need to be
inspected and replaced A/R and as you have done.  This bushing primarily
affects castor adjustment, so is not hyper-critical, IMO.
> 
> 4. If the suspension could not hold the rotors true (i.e. the rotor under
> braking created forces greater then the suspension could hold due to being
> not perfectly true) then they would never get "turned" true.
> 
> 5. I replaced the suspension pieces that needed replacement anyway! The sway
> bar bushings were very worn and the new ones are extremely tight.
> 
> 6. As a result, my brakes shimmy SIGNIFICANTLY less. I bet it will go away
> within a month or so as the rotors wear.
> 
> What do you think of my theory? Probable.....I think so! :-)
> 
> Thanks for asking!
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________
> Paul Waterloo
> Applied Energy Services
> Phone 708-524-9464
> Fax 708-524-0079
> Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304
> pwaterloo at compuserve.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> To: "Paul Waterloo" <pwaterloo at compuserve.com>
> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!
> 
> 
>> 
>> FYI, all of these bushings are available seperately.  If the new UFO
> rotors
>> were shimmering (in the dark too?) and the old ones did not, that problem
>> was rotor related, not front suspension related.
>> 
>> Bernie
>> 
>>> From: "Paul Waterloo" <pwaterloo at compuserve.com>
>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:04:41 -0600
>>> To: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>, "200 list"
> <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!
>>> 
>>> Bernie-
>>> 
>>> I replaced the control arms because it was my understanding that you
> could
>>> not replace the inner bushings (the ones that attach to the sub frame).
> I
>>> thought it was all part of one piece. My front end was shaking too much
> and
>>> the relatively new UFO's were shimmering.....the old ones never did
> that.
>>> 
>>> After looking at everything, you could probably significantly increase
> the
>>> stability of the front end by replacing the sway bar bushings where it
>>> attaches to the car frame and the rubber bushings where they go through
> the
>>> control arms. That clamps everything in place. I don't know if you can
> get
>>> the rubber bushings where they go through the control arms separately.
>>> 
>>> My car has 220K on it, and it seems to be very tight again!
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> _____________________________________________________
>>> Paul Waterloo
>>> Applied Energy Services
>>> Phone 708-524-9464
>>> Fax 708-524-0079
>>> Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304
>>> pwaterloo at compuserve.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
>>> To: "Paul Waterloo" <pwaterloo at compuserve.com>
>>> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>> 
>>>> Please tell us why you replaced the control arms, and not just the
> inner
>>>> control arm bushings.  Nothing to wear out on the control arms.  I have
>>> also
>>>> had to replace the sway bar to control arm bushings on my 250K 5KTQ,
> but
>>> not
>>>> the 200-20V yet at only 130K.
>>>> 
>>>> When you free up the tie rod ends, take them off the rods and lube the
>>>> threads and the taper clamp washer with waterproof grease.  You'll
> never
>>>> have the problem again.
>>>> 
>>>> All brake rotors tend to wear true so, short of a major thermal trama,
>>> well
>>>> used rotors are better performers than new or newly machined.
>>>> 
>>>> Bernie
>>>> 
>>>>> From: "Paul Waterloo" <pwaterloo at compuserve.com>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:40:00 -0600
>>>>> To: "200 list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>> Subject: [200q20v] Warped UFO's - not anymore!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just got done dumping some major cash into the car, had bought a bunch
>>> of
>>>>> new front end parts last summer that I just had installed (didn't do
> it
>>>>> myself, it was kinda nice!).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Replaced the control arms, struts (with Boge gas struts), and sway bar
>>>>> rubber bushings. The control arms have new rubber bushings where the
>>> sway
>>>>> bar goes through them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The car is much tighter (everything was original including the struts)
>>> and
>>>>> the sway bar rubber bushings (under the front of the car) were way
> worn.
>>> The
>>>>> whole car handles better, I don't have a heavy push anymore, it's much
>>> more
>>>>> balanced, and my relatively new UFO rotors don't shimmy like they use
>>> to! I
>>>>> can tell that they are still a little warped, but I'm sure that
> they'll
>>>>> straighten out after a month or so. The old suspension pieces couldn't
>>> hold
>>>>> them straight under braking.
>>>>> 
>>>>> BTW, make sure you install the left control arm on the left side and
>>> right
>>>>> on right, 'cause they can be installed backwards! :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now I have to bring my original control arms back to Blau because they
>>> sold
>>>>> me the wrong ones, the correct ones are 19 mm shafts at the lower
>>> knuckle,
>>>>> not 18mm. The invoice says they are for our car (which will also fit
> the
>>> V8)
>>>>> but they weren't right. Bought them last June, I hope they give me a
>>> credit!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> P.S. I also have to unlock all of the tie rods (front and rear) with
>>> heat so
>>>>> I can bring it in and get it properly aligned.
>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>> Paul Waterloo
>>>>> Applied Energy Services
>>>>> Phone 708-524-9464
>>>>> Fax 708-524-0079
>>>>> Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304
>>>>> pwaterloo at compuserve.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 200q20v mailing list
>>>>> 200q20v at audifans.com
>>>>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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