New Member, Not a new Audi owner

Chris Covington malth at umich.edu
Thu Jun 13 20:48:26 EDT 2002 

Guys, I'm just busting Bernie's balls at his own game, that's all.. I
wasn't really serious.  My car came with G60s (they had just been swapped
out from worn UFO pads, rotors and worn struts), and I haven't been too
disappointed.  You all must just absolutely hate S4/S6/later V8s with
their heavier weights and the same size rotors, pads and G60s.  So don't
mind my huge piece of shit 200q20v with stock everything except G60s and
an IA3 chip.

Chris
'91 200q20v

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Mike Sylvester wrote:

> It seems that you've missed the point.
>
> By changing to G60 you traded performance for lower cost, typically an
> upgrade is defined at the opposite.
> It seems to me that if your primary concern is cost, then an Audi 20v is not
> the right car for you.  I'm guessing that by owning such a car, cost is not
> of the primary concern, thus the change to G60s seems curious to me.  My
> guess is that at the time, you did not realize the trade that you were
> making.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Covington" <malth at umich.edu>
> To: "Mike Sylvester" <mike.sylvester at att.net>
> Cc: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>; "200q20V mailing list"
> <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 1:26 PM
> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
>
>
> > Hah, no that won't work because the 10VT was never offered after the 20VT.
> > ;)  And also, my 20VT doesn't need replacement like my UFOs, pads and
> > struts did.
> >
> > Chris
> > '91 200q20v
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Mike Sylvester wrote:
> >
> > > Chris,
> > > I have a WX 10v turbo engine from my UrQ that I will swap into your 200
> for
> > > free, since that 20v is so costly to maintain.  I will also give you new
> > > injectors, spark plugs and clutch assy in the deal.  That sounds like a
> good
> > > "upgrade", doesn't it?
> > >
> > > Mike Sylvester
> > > '91 200q20v avant    w/UFO
> > > '83 UrQ
> > > '01 A6 2.7t
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chris Covington" <malth at umich.edu>
> > > To: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > > Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:05 PM
> > > Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > >
> > >
> > > > Though I cannot answer that question, because I do not agree that it
> > > > is a downgrade, again the fat wallet issue arises - from my
> understanding,
> > > > you pay more for the UFO system Porsche upgrade then you do for the
> G60
> > > > system Porsche upgrade.
> > > > Also, I would not have been able to live WITHOUT the free brake swap
> for
> > > > many years (I had bad UFO rotors and pads, and worn struts), thus I
> > > > would've spent more to maintain the UFOs, had to have purchased new
> > > > struts, AND if I were to upgrade later to Porsche brakes, I would be
> > > > paying more again.
> > > >
> > > > Hey I applaud you, it's great that you have such a fat wallet and
> choose
> > > > to maintain your Audi that way, but I choose not to.  I define a
> > > > "downgrade" as a waste of money, not by a theoretical brake torque
> > > > advantage.  The same size G60 pad and rotor were factory-backed &
> > > > installed in the V8, the S4/S6 (though that might have a slightly
> > > > different sized rotor), so I didn't consider the swap such a horrible
> > > > deed.
> > > >
> > > > My G60 swap was an "upgrade."
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > > '91 200q20v
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Bernie Benz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So, you've lived with your free brake downgrade for how many years,
> > > because
> > > > > you may at some point in the future spring for an expensive brake
> > > upgrade,
> > > > > which is now available for the UFO system also?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bernie
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: Chris Covington <malth at umich.edu>
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > > > To: Bernie Benz <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > > > > > Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v at audifans.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, and another plus of going with the G60 free swapout is that
> not
> > > only
> > > > > > do you get a new front braking system, and struts, but you also
> get a
> > > > > > cheaper / more hassle-free upgrade path to Porsche brakes.  All
> that
> > > for
> > > > > > free.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > '91 200q20v
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Bernie Benz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Chris,  In 100K I've spent a whole $65. (too much, I admit) for
> new
> > > pads for
> > > > > >> my UFOs, that's all.  So, the G60s were a free downgrade!  Was
> that
> > > good?
> > > > > >> Even if it was $2K worth of downgrade parts.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Bernie
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> From: Chris Covington <malth at umich.edu>
> > > > > >>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:19:42 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > > >>> To: Bernie Benz <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > > > > >>> Cc: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at bear.com>, 200q20V mailing
> > > list
> > > > > >>> <200q20v at audifans.com>
> > > > > >>> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Bernie, not everyone has as fat a wallet as yours and likes to
> > > afford the
> > > > > >>> more expensive maintenance on the UFOs vs. the G60s.  So when
> the
> > > G60s
> > > > > >>> were a free switchout, and came with free new hardware (incl.
> new
> > > struts,
> > > > > >>> pads, rotors, calipers, etc. - those all add up to some serious
> $$$
> > > > > >>> saved) vs. however many miles one had on their UFOs and the
> other
> > > > > >>> associated components, I didn't have a problem with that.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I guess if I had the fat wallet syndrome and liked to spend more
> > > like
> > > > > >>> you, then I'd be fine with keeping the UFOs, worn struts, pads,
> etc.
> > > But
> > > > > >>> I don't.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Chris
> > > > > >>> '91 200q20v
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Bernie Benz wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Not suprising.  I've always been a proponent of UFOs vs. G60s
> > > because of
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>> 15% braking torque UFO advantage due to its larger rotor
> diameter,
> > > piston
> > > > > >>>> area remains the same.  Paying for a real upgrade in braking
> torque
> > > and
> > > > > >>>> heat
> > > > > >>>> capacity, as you are planning, can possibably be justified but
> > > paying for,
> > > > > >>>> or even allowing Audi to to so to you for a down grade is
> beyoud my
> > > > > >>>> comprehension.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Bernie
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> From: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at bear.com>
> > > > > >>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:11:00 -0400
> > > > > >>>>> To: "'Bernie Benz'" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I find that your opinion of the UFO "upgrade" is surprising.
> > > Ultimately
> > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>> UFO's are better but very few people can get them to brake
> > > smoothly and
> > > > > >>>>> consistently.  And parts (and labor) are VERY expensive.
> That's
> > > why it
> > > > > >>>>> was
> > > > > >>>>> changed under warranty.  I'm not happy with the brakes on my
> S4
> > > either but
> > > > > >>>>> when I used new rotors and pads both front and rear, I got a
> firm
> > > pedal
> > > > > >>>>> with
> > > > > >>>>> fairly strong stopping power.  I just wouldn't trust them at
> the
> > > track.
> > > > > >>>>> But
> > > > > >>>>> that's why the S4 will be getting the Big Reds when the budget
> > > will allow
> > > > > >>>>> it.  The 200TQW will probably remain mostly stock.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Dave
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>>>> From: Bernie Benz [mailto:b.m.benz at prodigy.net]
> > > > > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PM
> > > > > >>>>> To: Freed, David (Exchange)
> > > > > >>>>> Cc: 200q20V mailing list
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Two comments, Dave.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Audi's "fix" conversion from UFOs to G60s, IMO, was a
> downgrade,
> > > not an
> > > > > >>>>> upgrade in braking performance.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Rotary shaft seals:  If a seal is leaking and no other
> internal
> > > symptoms,
> > > > > >>>>> shch as bad noises, add a half a can of engine seal restorer
> the
> > > rear end,
> > > > > >>>>> and the other half into the tranny.  Of course this works on
> > > engine shaft
> > > > > >>>>> seals also.  Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Bernie
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> From: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at bear.com>
> > > > > >>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:54:20 -0400
> > > > > >>>>>> To: "'200q20v List'" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does
> not
> > > > > >>>>>> understand
> > > > > >>>>>> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>> I just joined this mailing list because I just got a new (to
> me)
> > > '91 200
> > > > > >>>>> TQ
> > > > > >>>>>> Avant in Indigo Mica (I've corrected my previous error of
> Lago)
> > > with Grey
> > > > > >>>>>> leather and 114,000 miles.  The body and interior are in
> > > excellent shape
> > > > > >>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>> a previous owner had the UFO upgraded to S4 front brakes plus
> a
> > > Hoppen
> > > > > >>>>> chip.
> > > > > >>>>>> I've already received congrats from several list members
> because
> > > I also
> > > > > >>>>> own
> > > > > >>>>>> a '93 S4 and belong to the S-Car list.  I've include my
> original
> > > post to
> > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> S-Car list as an introduction.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Here's my problem:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> There is a leak coming from the Right Rear differential seal.
> Is
> > > this a
> > > > > >>>>>> common seal failure or a sign of internal wear that could
> cost
> > > big bucks?
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > **********************************************************************
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> > > sending
> > > > > >>>>> this communication has an address in Bear Stearns' e-mail
> system,
> > > this
> > > > > >>>>> person is not an employee, agent or representative of Bear
> > > Stearns.
> > > > > >>>>> Accordingly, this person has no power or authority to
> represent,
> > > make
> > > > > >>>>> any recommendation, solicitation, offer or statements or
> disclose
> > > > > >>>>> information on behalf of or in any way bind Bear Stearns or
> any of
> > > its
> > > > > >>>>> affiliates.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > **********************************************************************
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>>> 200q20v mailing list
> > > > > >>>> 200q20v at audifans.com
> > > > > >>>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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