[s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque

[QSHIPQ at aol.com]

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I'm one of the ones that said NO! Robert.  IME with antiseize, it can only
compound, not alleviate anything wrt torquing wheels.  A bolt torque (unless
otherwise specified - IE head bolts for instance) are "dry" specification.
ANY use of a lubricant on wheel bolts will change that torque specification.
To what?  I have no idea.  But I have seen wheels with A/S on them get loose.
 YMMV?  It could, but contrary to your experience, my customers using it
hasn't been so good with A/S.

I really see no need for A/S, it's name means exactly what it's designed to
do.  In the case of a wheel bolt or nut, a clean thread should and will
provide a good clamping force on a hub.  If A/S were a recommended Audi
procedure, you'd see it in a TSB somewhere (Stabilant-22 is mentioned, A/S
isn't anywhere that I can find), or on wheels from the factory, or addressed
somewhere OEM or aftermarket.  I have never seen it.    As a shop guy, I'd
never put A/S on bolts, cuz there is NO documentation to support it's use,
nor is it a standard and routine Audi/any marque procedure.  Audi has several
references to loctite on parts that it's used as a sealant, not a "locking"
compound per sae.

As a race car/crew guy, I'd never use it, nor have I *ever* seen it.  With
proper torquing of clean threaded wheel nuts/bolts/hub, there is NO need for
it.  Most folks start using it after standing on a foot breaker bar to loosen
bolts.  That's not an A/S problem, that's a corrosion problem that all
aluminum wheel cars with steel hubs and wheel bolts (+ infrequent wheel
change intervals) are famous for.  If you remove a wheel bolt, and it's
corroded, it either should be replaced, or minimally cleaned.  The hub can be
cleaned with a wire brush in minutes, so can the mating surface of a wheel.

When this subject came up on the qlist years ago, several indicated "success"
with using A/S.  I personally avoid it like the plague, and have never
stripped a wheel bolt or nut from "not" using it, and use a common and
recommended cleaning procdure only with the same success (er my *1* exception
noted:).

Robert, you are adding another component to the heat cycle and dry torque
clamping forces.  This torque wrench procedure IMO, has nothing to do with
"coating" bolt/stud threads, it has everything to do with heat cycles, wheel
change frequency, torque and the relationship between them.  I just don't see
how A/S is going to *help* anything, you've only changed to an unknown wet
torque.

My dry torque on the subject.

SJ




In a message dated 10/21/2002 11:16:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
robert at s-cars.org writes:


Scott,

Would  it be possible for you to evaluate whether or not antiseize might
alleviate the loss of torque problem.

Here's my story:  I have done a number of wheel changes at the change of
season when I replace winter tires/wheels with summer tires/wheel.  In
every instance, after driving the car for a few miles, I found that the
wheel bolts needed retorqueing.  I finally applied some copper containing
antiseize to the bolts and since then have never had to retorque after a
wheel change over.

I have heard all sorts of statements relating to "NEVER use antiseize on
wheel bolts!"  IME, I've been satisfied with the results.  Would this be
worth a try for your car?  At worst you will need to clean off some grease
from the bolts and their mating parts.  At best your problem might be
eliminated.