Fwd: Motor Diagnosis was starter woes

[SuffolkD at aol.com]

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[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Sending this along for input and comments.
-Scott in BSOTON

In a message dated 9/18/02 2:36:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
suffolk.associates at verizon.net writes

Ladies & Gentlemen:   1990 200 TQAvant 10V Turbo Starter Woes.

> EXPERIENCED MOTOR PEOPLE - can you please chime in on how this could really
> happen without previous symptoms?
>
> I previously posted Starter woes and now the conclusion to why a perfectly
> good I-5 Turbo motor would seize.
> Motor was unable to be turned CW or CCW by 27mm socket on crank bolt.  400K
> 4000Q turned over way too easy as comparison.
> Car was driven up on auto part store incline ramps to replace alternator and
> replace fuel injectors (filter too). Wouldn't start after repairs.
>
> I was stumped and chased down starter wires, exciter wire - replaced length
> and soldered exciter lead to starter, , cleaned all wire contacts, checked
> grounds, reinstalled old starter (1 month otta warranty) but later bench
> tested good and good bench tested used $40 http://www.force5auto.com/ part
> four times, recharged suspect battery, new battery installed, then turned
> car over to AAA for flatbed ride to Concord NH to Northern European for tear
> down.  They had previously done the timing belt (preventative) one year and
> ~20,000 miles ago.
>
> I suspected:  Jammed flywheel I couldn't see. (teeth at starter and exposed
> flywheel looked mint), timing belt had failed OR spun woodruff key..$$$$$
> Hydro lock (gas/air compresses but water/liquid doesn't - fundamental
> hydraulics) So I removed the five plugs and placed a rod down (as a dip
> stick) to check for fuel and/or oil. NONE.  Still wouldn't turn over by
> crank bolt and socket wrench.
>
> From the conversation on the phone. This is what was determined to be the
> cause:
> In the back of the motor on Cyl #5 the head gasket had failed.
> Somehow material or coolant had worked its way into the cylinder,
> (I previously saw no white cloud -in exhaust- and no loss of coolant in the
> last two months)
> where the coolant and/or gasket material? worked into the #5 rings where it
> collected until it was too much for the starter (on a weak 10.5V battery
> I'll say) to turn the motor over - or at least cyl #5 past top dead center
> TDC while starting.
>
> Engine tuner questions:
>
> 1.  Can coolant accumulate to achieve this sticking point to prevent motor
> from turning over?
>
> 2.  Can Gasket material fail and there by "fall" into the cylinder?
>
> 3.  Did I experience Hydro-lock not detectable by the dipstick rod because
> the seepage was around the rings?
>
> 4.  Did the cars orientation of being angled (Nose high) on the ramps for
> several weeks contribute to this?
>
> Mechanic said he'd never seen a failure like this in 20 years of working
> around Audi/VW motors
>
> -Scott in BOSTON
>
>
>
> 4.  Alt went out again 2-3 months later.  COnfused with battery issue.
> Replaced Alt: Zero miles on it NOW.
> Car wouldn't start (while I was performing future maint - injectors)
> Replaced starter Not it. Checked wires and cleaned contacts.
> Not it.  Bench tested old starter GOOD. Reinstall. Click. No Start no Turn
> over.
> Read previous thread last two weeks 10V starter woes.
> Performed work in garage.  Drove runnig 200 onto two ramps (front wheels).
> Turned off car. Replaces items above - injectors (5) -, alt and Starter,
> cleaned wire connections.  Found out motor no turn over with 27MM socket on
> crank CW or CCW.  Starter teeth good and flywheel teeth look fine when I
> replaced the starter four times!  Car currently in NH at Euro Motorsport
> awaiting engine tear down for answer.
> Cost tear down ~$325 (no answer yet) and AAA tow.
>
> Common theme:  Get AAA



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From: "Suffolk GameServer LAN" <suffolk.associates at verizon.net>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Cc: <SuffolkD at aol.com>
Subject: RE: Motor Diagnosis was starter woes, Vol 1 #3963
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:41:53 -0400
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <20020917052106.3115D342 at www.audifans.com>


Ladies & Gentlemen:   1990 200 TQAvant 10V Turbo Starter Woes.

EXPERIENCED MOTOR PEOPLE - can you please chime in on how this could really
happen without previous symptoms?

I previously posted Starter woes and now the conclusion to why a perfectly
good I-5 Turbo motor would seize.
Motor was unable to be turned CW or CCW by 27mm socket on crank bolt.  400K
4000Q turned over way too easy as comparison.
Car was driven up on auto part store incline ramps to replace alternator and
replace fuel injectors (filter too). Wouldn't start after repairs.

I was stumped and chased down starter wires, exciter wire - replaced length
and soldered exciter lead to starter, , cleaned all wire contacts, checked
grounds, reinstalled old starter (1 month otta warranty) but later bench
tested good and good bench tested used $40 http://www.force5auto.com/ part
four times, recharged suspect battery, new battery installed, then turned
car over to AAA for flatbed ride to Concord NH to Northern European for tear
down.  They had previously done the timing belt (preventative) one year and
~20,000 miles ago.

I suspected:  Jammed flywheel I couldn't see. (teeth at starter and exposed
flywheel looked mint), timing belt had failed OR spun woodruff key..$$$$$
Hydro lock (gas/air compresses but water/liquid doesn't - fundamental
hydraulics) So I removed the five plugs and placed a rod down (as a dip
stick) to check for fuel and/or oil. NONE.  Still wouldn't turn over by
crank bolt and socket wrench.