[s-cars] Re: [urq] AutoFrost?

[Calvin & Diana Craig]

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I will have to admit that I am not a chemist and I am just going by what I
have read.  However, I am not going to run right out and take out the
duracool in my system because of fear of explosion.  Shoot, there are trucks
that run on pure Propane for goodness sake and I am very confident that
could create a worse situation than 1 lb of duracool :)
--Calvin

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Robert Myers [mailto:robert at s-cars.org]
  Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 3:42 AM
  To: Calvin & Diana Craig; Mark Strangways; Bill Bennett; Greg Johnson;
northwest audi enthusiasts; S Cars; V8; urq; 200 List
  Subject: RE: [s-cars] Re: [urq] AutoFrost?



  Forgive me, Calvin, but the statement, "R134a is more flammable than
duracool", is absurd.

  R134a is 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane.  R12 is dichlorodifluoromethane.  Both
of these compounds are quite similar to the precursor of Teflon.  Because
R134a has two remaining hydrogens it can be burned at high temperatures or
if it is mixed into an oxygen enriched atmosphere.  It can in no way be
considered "flammable" in any ordinary sense.  "Can be burned" differs
greatly from being "flammable".

  Duracool is a mixture of hydrocarbons for crying out loud.  Chief among
the components of this mixture is (from the Duracool MSDS statement) are
butane (15-40% v/v - deceptively named methyl ethyl methane), isobutane
(30-60% v/v - called by its less frequently used but correct scientific
name, 2-methylpropane), and propane (40-70% v/v - again deceptively named
dimethylmethane).  These mixtures would serve quite nicely as fuel for your
pocket lighter.  They are extremely flammable (in the ordinary sense).

  Any claim that "R134a is more flammable than duracool" can only come from
Duracool advertising - very deceptive and misleading advertising, as
deceptive as the names they are calling butane, isobutane, and propane.

  At 11:18 PM 6/23/2003 -0600, Calvin & Diana Craig wrote:


    R134a is more flammable than duracool.
    --Calvin


    -----Original Message-----
    From: s-car-list-admin at audifans.com
    [mailto:s-car-list-admin at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Robert Myers
    Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 4:08 AM
    To: Mark Strangways; Calvin & Diana Craig; Bill Bennett; Greg Johnson;
    northwest audi enthusiasts; S Cars; V8; urq; 200 List
    Subject: Re: [s-cars] Re: [urq] AutoFrost?


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    True under prolonged high heat in the presence of quite a lot of oxygen
R12
    can be converted (in VERY small amounts) into a phosgene-like
    chemical.  R12 will not "burn" in the ordinary sense one  sees when
    combustion occurs.  The heat must come from something else which is
    burning, not from combustion of the R12 itself.  The process is a slow
    process.  If you are in a situation where any significant amount (enough
to
    cause you health problems through acute exposure) will be formed through
    conversion of R12  you are likely already dead from your burns.  A trace
of
    phosgene is certainly far less of a hazard than a face full of flames
from
    burning refrigerant or burning gasoline.

    My recommendation:  Use the R134a originally used in your car or convert
    your R12 car to use R134a or properly maintain your R12 car so that
leaks
    are forestalled by preventive maintenance.  Use of flammable refrigerant
    when non-flammable ones are available is, IMO, simply foolish and a
false
    economy.

    At 11:26 PM 6/22/2003 -0400, Mark Strangways wrote:

    >One thing to add here.
    >I know R-12 forms a deadly poison gas when it comes into contact with
open
    >flames.
    >So, turn the A/C off prior to getting into that multicar accident !
    >
    >Mark


    ---GBS (great big snip)---


    _____

    Preserve our wildlife - throw a party tonight.

    Bob
    *****
      Robert L. Myers  304-574-2372
      Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA  WV tag Q SHIP
      '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen   ICQ 22170244
      http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
    *****
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  Bob
  *****
   Robert L. Myers  304-574-2372
   Rt. 4, Box 57,  Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA  WV tag Q SHIP
   '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen   ICQ 22170244
   http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
  *****


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