Fwd: CV boot replace ??

[C1J1Miller at aol.com]

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Delivered-To: 200q20v-admin at audifans.com
From: "J and R Zimmerman" <rosezimm at msn.com>
To: <200q20v-admin at audifans.com>
Subject: CV boot replace ??
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:10:09 -0700
Disposition-Notification-To: "J and R Zimmerman" <rosezimm at msn.com>
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Hi all,
TIA's,, for any tips or advice you can share.  I've just last night discove=
red the pass. side outer boot is leaking ('90 200 NON Q 10vT). I know it's =
a recent rupture 'caus I just last week rotated the tires and there was no =
evidence at that time so I'm fairly confident we have no contamination - bu=
t realize this is a MUST DO, or a clean joint is not long lived "if" we dri=
ve and ignore this.
I just completed a combined 2 hour search on the Chris Miller, Scott Mochry=
 and the archives at audifans.com and even tho it's quite long - I wonder i=
f I might trouble any of you who might have "any additional" comments or su=
ggestions ??

This R&R looks pretty simple (but MESSY !) and I believe I'm capable as lon=
g as I make sure I have all the appropriate tools - especially the 10mm tri=
ple square - and replacement parts "Boot Kit" prior to starting this job, a=
nd TAKE MY TIME !!, (yep,, I'll make sure I leave the car ON THE GROUND whi=
le loosening - and reinstalling/torquing theouter nuts).

This message infers that Mike Veglia ordered a "LOBRO BOOT KIT" from Carlso=
n,, however according to posts of a few days ago, Didi is no longer at Carl=
sen ??  so I should look elsewhere ??

Again, Thank you and I hope you are having/have had a GR8 Memorial Day week=
end !

Here's the "lengthy"  November of '98 discussion I "swiped" from audifans.c=
om message archives:
***************

RE: RF CV Boot job questions (5ktq)

To: "'Mike Veglia'" <MSV96 at aol.com>

Subject: RE: RF CV Boot job questions (5ktq)

From: "Buchholz, Steven" <Steven.Buchholz at kla-tencor.com>

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:54:25 -0700



Question from, Mike Veglia.  Must the entire axle be removed or is it possi=
ble to "weasle off" the outer joint with the inner joint attached to the tr=
ans ? (Seems to me I read a post to that effect.) I have circlip pliers, ho=
w bad is it to get the joint off the axle  ?

Answer from Steven Buchholz:  5ks are different than the 4ks.  I had heard =
that you had to loosen the strut to be able to extract the half shaft on th=
e 5k.  On the 4k and QTC it is possible to unbolt the inner CVJ (8mm triple=
-square?) and then by steering the wheel to full lock with the front of the=
 wheel pointing away from the car you can weasel the inner CV out of the dr=
ive flange.  I heard rumors later that this works for the 5k as well ... bu=
t I decided to pay someone to do it for me ...   You will probably find tha=
t there is a heat shield bolted to the transaxle to shield the inner CVJ th=
at you will need to remove as well.

Q=2E  Besides the "boot kit" what all other parts do I need to order ? Axle=
 nut ? Inner CV Flange Seal ?   What else ?

A=2E ... you've got it!  BTW, if you get the Lobro Boot Kit (I got mine fro=
m Carlsen) it will likely include a replacement axle nut.  I guess I may be=
 a bit anal retentive, but I always replace the seal between the inner CVJ =
and the drive flange and the axle nut ...

Q=2E  I have read several posts which state that end cutters will work to b=
oth crimp the clamps and cut the excess...I assume this is so ?

A=2E  Actually, I've even used diagonal cutters with success!  I now have t=
he "official" tool ... you can get them cheap from many auto tool stores, V=
W/Audi doesn't have a monopoly on that type of clip.  The nice thing about =
the "official" tool is that it has a special piece that keeps the crimp loo=
p from extending away from the boot too far.  Not that it is likely to be a=
 problem, but there isn't that much clearance between the boot and strut ..=
.   I don't know what you mean by "cutting the excess" ... all that you nee=
d to do is to crimp the loop.  Sometimes it is a PITA to get the "fingers" =
that hold the clamp together to engage at the point that provides the most =
initial grip though.  It is hard for me to describe this well in words, but=
 when you get to putting the clip around the CVJ you'll know what I mean.

Q=2E  The boot split now several hundred miles back with many mountain road=
 miles. The joint is not making any noises (yet) so I assume cleaning, pack=
ing, and boot will suffice ? Should I consider a "rebuilt axle" instead or =
is that foolish ?

A=2E  You were driving on clean dry roads, and if anything you were flingin=
g grease out of the joint [looked at the inside of your wheel yet ? ]    I =
wouldn't get a rebuilt half shaft based on that alone.  When you take the h=
alf shaft out disassemble the outer CVJ and see how worn it is for the mile=
age that you have, let that be the decision point ... I found the joints on=
 my 4kSQ with over 200k were starting to get a bit sloppy, but I left them =
in anyway ...  I would appreciate hearing back whether or not it is possibl=
e to remove the half shaft without popping the bottom of the strut loose ...

Good luck Mike !   Steve Buchholz   San Jose, CA (USA)

*The CV isn't really that hard either. Loosen the outer nut on the wheel be=
fore jacking up (book sez replace this too - never did on my 79 5KS and it =
was going strong @ 235K - after several times taking it off...). Drop the s=
way bar, loosen the outer control arm nut and remove bolt, or jack it up, p=
lay with it and remove bolt. Take wheel off, take nut off, lever down and p=
op out lower control arm. Pull on bottom of the strut and axle should pop o=
ut.  There is a circlip under boot.  Spread it with a large screwdriver and=
 whack the CV - it should pop right off.  Easier to pull the whole axle - y=
ou need one of those metric star-like thingies for those six bolts. The boo=
k sez use locktight on the splines to put it back together (I never have). =
 Only real live precaution is don't load the wheel/strut without the axle -=
 it trashes the wheel bearing.  Now all the real Audi purists are sucking i=
n their collective breaths and hissing...  Oh well...  I guess I'm an Audi =
realist!



From: Dave Conner conner at cfm.ohio-state.edu   Date: 02 Nov '98

At 05:36 PM 11/1/1998 ,  J S was inspired to say:

Question:  I have a small tear in my front boot and just ordered  replaceme=
nt.  Any advice or BTDT?

Thanks in advance,  John  90quattro20v

Answer:   I've just finished replacing CV boots on two different cars, 86 4=
kq and 89100, and have some BTDT to share.



1=2E   There has been recent discussion re: replacing differential axle sha=
ft seals.  If you already have the axle shaft off, this is the time to repl=
ace that seal.  You've already done 90% of the work required to get at it. =
 You might want to do it as preventive maintenance.

2=2E  If you dis-assemble the CV joint itself...be very careful to make sur=
e you put it back together correctly.  It seems they can be assembled in mo=
re than one way, but only one will work.  They can be a real puzzle to put =
back together.

3=2E  You >may< be able to avoid dis-assembly of the joint.  Someone sugges=
ted using brake cleaner to flush out the old grease,  Then just re-pack it =
with new grease.  The down side is you don't get to inspect the innards.  B=
ut the good part would be you don't have to spend a lot of time fiddling wi=
th the pieces to

make sure you have put it back together correctly.  If replacing both the i=
nner and outer boot...it is possible to slide both boots on from one end.  =
On my 89 100 I removed only the inner joint and slid the new outer boot on =
from the inner end.  This was because the #%*@!** circlip for the outer joi=
nt broke and I could not get it off no matter how I struggled with it.  You=
 may want to flush the old grease off with brake cleaner even if you will d=
isassemble the joint because then you will be able to see what you're doing=
.=2E.the grease is such a god-awful mess.

4=2E  The Bentley states you >must< mark the pieces before dis-assembly of =
the inner joint as their orientation must remain the same after re-assembly=
.  They suggest  making this mark with a grinding wheel because the parts a=
re too hard for other tools.  If you fail to mark it first you >may< be abl=
e to discern a wear pattern that will allow correct re-assembly.   HTH,   D=
ave Conner  Columbus, OH



CV Boot done! Tips I learned...

From: MSV96 at aol.com  Date: 8 Sep 1998



First of many thanks to all how contributed with CV Boot replacement tips, =
help, and advice ! With all the information I felt very ready and prepared.=
   I would like to pass along the things I learned along the way. (All WRT =
5ktq front right axle but applies to most Audis I imagine.)



1=2E The "triple square bit" is indeed a 10mm. As has been mentioned here m=
any times, ensure that the hole in the bolt is very clean and the tool bit =
is firmly seated. Breaking those free is a bit scary and after all six the =
tool was showing signs of wear. (In other words I would suggest owning a sp=
are.)

2=2E No problem removing the axle (manual trans) with the steering at full =
lock--following the instructions of Bentley and others you remove the inner=
 first and angle the axle up to press out the outer from the wheel bearing.=
  Remove axle nut with tire on the ground. I used a 1/2" drive 18" breaker =
bar and stood on it...loosened right up.

3=2E One thing that dawned on me, my puller which I have used for pressing =
out the outer joints from wheel bearings on 4kqs (I hooked to the lug bolts=
 on the 4kq) didn't quite work out with the 5 lug pattern on the 5ktq. My s=
olution was to bolt the brake disc securely with all 5 lug bolts and hook t=
he puller to the brake disc slots (on the hub portion of the disc). Worked =
great !

4=2E Removing the outer joint. This is a major PITA! It requires a bench vi=
ce and the circlip needs to be spread open while an assistant beats on the =
joint with a hammer and drift. Not fun. We opted for two pair of needle nos=
e pliers to hold the circlip open. None of my circlip pliers would hold it =
without slipping. The ideal tool would be one that positvely locks the litt=
le sucker open...dunno if the VAG tool does that but if so would be a huge =
help.

5=2E Cleaning and greasing. I had thought about doing the inner and was pre=
pared with boot kit in hand. Upon close inspection of the boot and the join=
t I opted not to. I doubt the inners go bad often. Instead of disassembling=
 the entire joint I opted (on the advice of a local VW mechanic) to wash ou=
t the joint with fast evaporating degreaser spray. This worked out great si=
nce the joint had never been exposed to water driven grit. This would not b=
e a good idea for joints with boots which failed in winter I don't think.  =
Once nice and clean I packed the backside first by working the grease in wi=
th my finger (grease is provided in the Lobro kit). There is also a massive=
 amount of cleaning required on the inside of the wheel and around the stru=
t and brake caliper from grease that flew. I was prepared with several cans=
 of spray degreaser and a roll of "paper shop towels" which all helped.

6=2E Install joint to axle. Lobro provides a new circlip.  Insert that and =
carefully start the spline on the axle. Next you pound like crazy with the =
axle verticle to seat the sucker home. Took a while with my sand filled

plastic "dead blow" hammer. I suppose one could get aggressive and use a sm=
all sledge but I was chicken.

7=2E Pack a little fresh grease into the inner. (It was clean but had lost =
a little from removal.) I used one of the new slider zipper type gallon fre=
ezer bags to seal the inner joint while installing the axle--worked great!

8=2E Install outer into wheel bearing.  Used a bead of locktight per Bentle=
y=2E Used the old axle nut to pull the joint all the way home. Not sure why=
 in hindsight...I guess I thought at the time that for whatever reason the =
nut may need to come back off and I didn't want to waste my new one (also p=
rovided in the Lobro kit).

9=2E Bolt inner back to transmission. I carefully cleaned the old bolts and=
 inspected the 12 point inner splines. Bentley did not say to replace these=
 (I don't think). The inner Lobro kit does contain new ones which are "patc=
hlock" (blue locktight applied). An assistant here helps to lock the hub wi=
th a prybar against the lug bolts when torquing the bolts.   That's about i=
t=2E..all downhill from there (install wheel and lower from jack-

stands). Torque axle nut (new one) and wheel lug bolts once car is on the g=
round.



I hope this experience helps others. The job is really not that bad. After =
all was buttoned up a quick spin in my assistant's M3 and a therapeutic eve=
ning sail in a nice easterly breeze really hit the spot (along with a good =
scrub and some cold beers). Thanks again for all who posted and wrote priva=
te messages offering help!   Mike Veglia  87 5kcstq

 In a message dated 98-09-08 13:49:49 EDT, tyoung at wamnet.com writes:

<< Not exactly sure if I'm getting the right picture, but.....  I've got a =
pair of pliers (Sears Craftsman) that work the reverse of normal, when  you=
 squeeze the handles together, the jaws open up (spread apart, instead of  =
closing). Used them many-a-times to get a cir-clip type thingy off the driv=
e  splines on my Toyota 4X4's front hub (had that thing apart so many times=
 I could  do it in my sleep - grease maintenance). I was unaware of them un=
til my  brother-in-law pulled out a pair one time, you can bet I made a bee=
-line forthe  nearest Sears store and picked up my own pair. The outer surf=
ace of the jaws have  small teeth to help hold the cir-clip, so that it doe=
sn't go flying. They work  good for removal and installation. I don't know =
the Sears tool number, but if you  go in asking about 4WD tools, they shoul=
d be able to find it. >>



You got "the right picture" Todd! No worries about the little sucker "going=
 flying" cuz it is captive and the boot kit contains a new one anyway. That=
 tool sounds like a winner and I will surely buy one before the next time I=
 do this. Highly recommended if it fits the application. Ideally they shoul=
d lock the clip open freeing up both hands to hold the drift and bash with =
the hammah...otherwise still a two person (or one three handed person) job.=
   Mike Veglia