coolant leak to timing belt job?

Ed Kellock ekellock at gmail.com
Wed Aug 2 20:34:07 EDT 2006 

Well the w/p was not loose, in fact the bolts were probably overtorqued.  I
am able to adjust belt tension sufficiently with it.
 
However, that leaves the water leak.  So far I haven't changed out of my
work clothes so I didn't get underneath, but the w/p did leak when I
loosened the bolts and started moving it around so I would like to take a
look underneath and see where it is dripping from.
 
I have a feeling my leak was not the water pump.  I'm glad I found the loose
belt issue and hope that retensioning the belt will not cause a new leak at
the w/p.  
 
More later...

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Kellock [mailto:ekellock at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:17 PM
To: 200q20V mailing list
Subject: Re: coolant leak to timing belt job?


Funny, very funny.  ;-)
 
At lunch I took another peak and it looks like the w/p is rotated
counter-clockwise as far as it can go or very nearly so.  I'll confirm this
tonight once I lay a wrench on it.  
 
I wrote down the p/n of the timing belt which was fortunately situated where
I could see it nicely, 054 109 119a
ETKA says G replaced A and even the 7A motor takes the same belt.
 
Also checked w/p p/ns between 3B, 7A, and NG and they are basically all the
same however I don't know what I actually have on the car.
 
What other reasons might cause the belt to be loose?  Stretching??  But how?

 
This is getting curiouser and curiouser.
 
And then Nick interjects the freeze plug idea, which actually struck a chord
because of where the leaks manifests...  It drips off the large square hunk
of metal on the front passenger side of the block, the big square that has a
large round hole in it.  Following the wetness upwards about halfway and
then there's some sort of ridge that it seems to follow along before turning
down.  This is all on the opposite side of the block from the w/p.  
 
I checked in etka and couldn't find any pix or listing for freeze plugs.
Where is the one on the front of the engine?  If it's over toward the
passenger side of the front of the block, then we may have a DING, though
without any accompanying fanfare dammit. 
 
Ed

 
On 8/2/06, Schaible, David <David.Schaible at jrspharma.com> wrote: 

Whaddaya expect....he sleeps w/ his bentley.....

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Rogers [mailto: brogers at terrix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:47 PM
To: 'Ed Kellock'; '200q20V mailing list'
Subject: RE: coolant leak to timing belt job?

Wow I've heard "very young, very good looking " describe many um, 
things, but never a timing belt!

Way to go Ed!

Brandon

-----Original Message-----
From: 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:
<mailto:200q20v-bounces at audifans.com> 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of Ed Kellock
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:17 AM
To: 200q20V mailing list
Subject: Re: coolant leak to timing belt job?


I really appreciate all the response on this issue (and others too!).  I 
did some bedtime reading of the Bentley and combined with the collective
wisdom, I feel much better about the situation.  Having done 2 V8 timing
belt jobs helps my confidence too.

Here's where I'm at and the course of action I intend to pursue: I have 
a very young, very good looking but loose timing belt and a still
somewhat mysterious coolant leak with no obvious source at any hose
connection. I have the p/s pump out and new tstat in hand, along with a
new piece of hose for the otherwise inaccessible turbo coolant line 
hose. I do not have any of the bumper, grill, or front end stuff off at
this point. I believe I have sufficient access to adjust the timing
belt. I will do that and replace the t-stat and the one small hose.  And 
I will rotate the engine to confirm timing marks afterwards just for
some piece of mind. Then I'll reassemble and run/drive it and see how
the leak situation is.

If I have to go back in to fix a persistent water pump leak, I may throw 
on a new tbelt. I might even fix what ain't broke and put in a new w/p
too and endure some chastising from Bernie. (These two parts seem
relatively cheap compared to those in my 2 V8's).

At 33k, I'm right in the middle of the life that the majority of people 
consider acceptable and would not necessarily feel uncomfortable going
Bernie's route and going forward with the current belt.  I would not be
comfortable going into triple digits with it however.  Having said that, 
my CGT has 141k miles and the timing belt in it was installed at about
90k miles... 12-13 years ago.  So I feel like I'm following Bernie's
advice there, without necessarily intending to.  (No I haven't even
pulled the cover to have a look at it).

So, tonight another wrenching session.  In the last 10 days I've spent
just about all my free time working on cars.  For now, I'm actually
enjoying it.

Ed



On 8/2/06, John S. Lagnese <jlagnese at massed.net> wrote:
>
> Its waaaayyyy better to err on the side of caution with the belt. The
> alternative is catastrophic! John 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernie Benz" <b.benz at charter.net>
> To: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com  <mailto:ekellock at gmail.com> >
> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: coolant leak to timing belt job? 
>
>
> > Ed,
> > Your TB is hardly broken in yet. I run mine well into tripple digit
> > mileage, only changing after that point if I must be in there for
> > something else. Seal restoring snake oil beats seal changes every 
> > time.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> >> From: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> I'm with you on this all the way Bernie.  The t-belt was done 33k 
> >> ago
> and
> >> it
> >> looks good as well.  I am hoping to get away with a simply
> >> readjustment of the tension.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Bernie Benz [mailto:b.benz at charter.net]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 7:50 AM 
> >>> To: Kneale Brownson; Ed Kellock
> >>> Cc: 200q20V mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: coolant leak to timing belt job?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The 90 degree twist test is good enough for single cam S5s but, 
> >>> IMO, not tight enough for the twin cams. Give it a little more,
> >>> but DF what AB!
> >>>
> >>> Bernie
> >>>
> >>>> From: Kneale Brownson < kneale at coslink.net>
> >>>> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 07:45:33 -0400
> >>>> To: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com  <mailto:ekellock at gmail.com> >,
"'q - 200q20v'"
> >>>> <200q20v at audifans.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: coolant leak to timing belt job?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Swinging the water pump is how you adjust the tension on a
> >>> 3B timing
> >>>> belt, Ed.  Proper tension "test" according to Bentley is only
> >>>> being able to twist the belt "90 degrees with the thumb and 
> >>> forefinger midway between the
> >>>> camshaft and the pump sprocket".   Doesn't specify any
> >>> measure for finger
> >>>> and thumb strength, of course.  More than likely, a leak 
> >>> from the pump
> >>>> means it's time to replace it and you might as well replace
> >>> the belt,
> >>>> seals and idler while you're at it.
> >>>> 
> >>>>
> >>>> At 11:23 PM 8/1/2006 -0600, Ed Kellock wrote:
> >>>>> My pursuit of a coolant leak in the Avant has uncovered a
> >>> seriously
> >>>>> loose timing belt.  I had thought the leak was suspiciously 
> >>>>> coming from an area that could certainly have been from the w/p.

> >>>>> None of the many small hoses, buried by the now removed p/s pump
> >>> seem to have 
> >>>>> been leaking.  Is it true that the timing belt tension is
> >>> provided by
> >>>>> adjusting the water pump?  I know that's how it is on the AAN
> >>>>> but haven't played the t-belt game on a 3B or any 10v motor 
> >>> before.  My
> >>>>> theory is that the water pump adjustment came loose and the
> >>>>> water leak is a symptom of that.  Boy am I glad I parked it and
> >>> got the V8 
> >>>>> t-belt done and out of the garage before digging into this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The belt is so loose that I can wiggle it back and forth
> >>> on the water 
> >>>>> pump pulley.  I could pop it off with one finger if I
> >>> wanted to.  I
> >>>>> can bend the belt 90 degrees with one finger.  The
> >>> opposite length of 
> >>>>> it between the cam pulley and crank pulley is snug, but
> >>> also easily
> >>>>> turned 90 degrees.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ 
> >>>> 200q20v mailing list
> >>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
> >>>
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > 200q20v mailing list
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
> >
>
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