stainless steel braided brake lines - how many?

[Phil Rose]

At 12:27 PM -0700 3/20/06, Kenneth Keith wrote:
>On 3/20/06, Phil Rose <pjrose at frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>  > >Does anyone know why there is a 6 piece kit listed for 200's and only
>>  >a 4 piece kit listed for ur-S4's?
>>  >
>>  >http://www.paragonperformance.com/audibrk.html
>>  >
>>  >Thanks,
>  >
>>  Ken,
>>  What are your "budget big brakes"? What calipers, bracket, rotor 
>>are you using?
>
>Porsche "big black" 928gts calipers, Audi RS2 brackets, Audi A8L
>rotors, and G60-style strut housings.
>
>>  Anyway, you'll presumably need _custom_ lines up front, so I wonder
>>  why are you looking at any braided lines that Paragon Perf is
>>  specifying for _stock_ brakes (the Paragon listing of 6-pc lines
>>  seems to be for the stock 200 brakes!) And I wonder how they offer
>>  one kit for '89-91 200, since the '91 200 (UFO) would be different
>>  from '89 & '90--right?--In any case, the stock brakes do use a short
>>  piece of solid line up front, which I assume is where the "extra" 2
>>  pieces are used(?)  I'd advise you to go slow on this aspect of the
>>  brake project: make certain you get the  line-lengths and
>>  end-fittings (!) that are appropriate--especially for that _front_
>  > caliper setup.
>
>  I have had feedback indicating that I can use
>the stock brake lines for the conversion.

I strongly suspect that it would be possible to use oem-type flexible 
lines ONLY IF you include a similar section of hard (rigid) line to 
attach to the new caliper.  Otherwise the oem hose will be (a) too 
short, and (b) will have the wrong outboard fitting (i.e., the 
Porsche caliper typically will require connection to a male 10x1 
convex fitting whereas the Audi oem hose has female fittings at both 
ends). Using  the same (or a similar) section of hard (rigid) line 
with your new calipers is problematical since, when the G60 calipers 
are removed,  you also will lose (and cannot re-use) the sturdy steel 
bracket that serves to firmly anchor the "free" end of the hard line. 
Hence you'd need to figure out another way to firmly anchor the end 
of hard line (i.e., where it connects to the new flexible hose). 
That's presumably why people tend to discard the hard line and go 
with a single, flexible piece of hose.

>I'm not familiar with that short solid piece of line you mention.
>I'll have to take a look at that.  I thought the extra hoses might be
>on a subframe or something, maybe a proportioning valve on the rear or
>something.  I'll visually inspect what I have going on.

Yes indeed do that-- as you ought to have a good idea of what's in 
your present system before attempting such a critical modification.


>  I was hoping
>someone had the story that could respond specifically about the 6
>piece kit. (I do appreciate any replies.)

Well, I tried to  give what I thought was a good explanation of what 
likely accounts for those two  "extra" pieces of brake line. Paragon 
calls it a 6-piece kit, but they do not specify that all the pieces 
are _flexible_ lines (hoses), do they? Why not contact Paragon 
Performance if you think our cars may require use of two more 
flexible hoses than any of us have ever seen? Maybe the extra pieces 
are window decals? ;-)

>  > So...If you can buy a _good_ pre-made set of four SS lines for
>>  anything under or even somewhat above $100 (especially for DOT) then
>>  it could be well worth it to do so, IMHO. Just keep in mind that some
>>  people have been burned in the past by purchasing prefab sets that
>>  have incorrect lengths and/or wrong type of fitting (e.g., the
>>  incorrect fitting seat/seal or angle). The kit that Paragon offers
>>  for the ur-S4 with Porsche calipers might work for you--although IME
>>  a 16" length would somewhat excessive (by about 1") for the front
>>  lines in my set up. YMMV.
>
>Yes, I'm certainly looking to not get burned. =)  What I'd really like
>to hear about is someone who's done this particular brake conversion
>successfully, so I can just use the same or comparable parts.

You'll probably find that the majority of '91 200q owners (on this 
list) who've done brake upgrades have used the BIRA bracket  (either 
UFO or G60), so bracket designs and caliper models are all somewhat 
different from your approach. Hopefully, whoever stated that you can 
use "stock" brake lines is someone who's actually done your specific 
conversion on a '91 200q--and they would be able to back the 
assertion up with info on their brake line parts.

As I stated in my previous post, you might be able to use the ur-S4 
kit that Paragon sells for the Porsche brake upgrade. You'd merely 
need to (a) verify that your 928 calipers ise the same hydraulic 
fitting (probably male 10x1 convex) and (b) that the overall line 
length of 16" will fit OK. Brake line length would be fairly easy to 
estimate by doing a temporary installation of the new bracket and 
caliper for the purpose of determining  a suitable length. You 
needn't disconnect the present brake line at all--just unbolt and 
hang your G60 caliper off to one side. The "best" line length is not 
a particularly precise value--of course it needs to be long enough to 
easily allow full suspension travel--but not be so so (excessively) 
long that there are tight bends or rubbing contact with other parts.

Phil


-- 

Phil Rose
Rochester, NY
mailto:pjrose at frontiernet.net