Suspecting bad ECU and master cylinder. Please help confirm. (pretty long)
jlagnese at massed.net
jlagnese at massed.net
Tue Nov 10 15:53:11 PST 2009
The brake problem is likely the master cylinder.
I've replaced it on mine.
---- Original message ----
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:16:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Bozga <audisport44 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Suspecting bad ECU and master cylinder.
Please help confirm. (pretty long)
To: 200q20v at audifans.com
>Hi everyone,
>
>I'll start by saying that I've been part of this
mailing list before, many years ago. I doubt
anyone will remember though. I'm on my 4th 20V
now having owned a red one at first followed up by
a black and then panther black. I haven't had one
for quite a few years but I recently acquired a
pearl white in hopes of using as a daily driver so
I can stop driving my '02 B5 S4 all the time. I've
put way too much time and money into that car so I
really need to start racking up miles on something
else. That's where the 200 comes in.
>
>I bought the car from a guy that seemed to be
clueless about it or what it really was and he
thought it had a bad turbo. This was according to
his mechanic that works on BMWs, so you can
imagine how familiar he is with Audis. The turbo
itself is fine, not seized by any means and the
shaft play is so minimal it's one of the best I've
seen. There were many other little issues here and
there which I've been fixing but the two main
problems still remain.
>
>1. The brakes.
>
>The brake light stays on constantly. At first
everything is ok, but eventually after driving the
car for a very short while they begin to seize up.
The brake pedal actuation point drops down and the
car wants to haul to a stop and you really have to
use the engine to overpower the brakes and get it
moving. I've checked all the calipers because at
first I thought it was corroded carrier pins. All
4 calipers seem to have been replaced pretty
recently. I took out all the pins front and rear
and cleaned and greased them either way. I no
longer think it's a matter of stuck carriers and
somehow doubt it would be pistons either. The
brake servo (part that connects to the firewall
and brake pedal) was leaking pretty badly so I
thought that might be why it seizes. I replaced it
with a used but good unit with about half the
miles of mine (198k on this car btw). The leak has
stopped but the problem is still there.
>
>I've checked power assistance after the car is
stopped and I have plenty of it. I've pumped the
brakes like 40 times and there was still
assistance. All of this leads me to believe that
the pressure accumulator is fine and that the next
thing I should be replacing is the master
cylinder. Once you park the car the pedal
actuation point gradually start to return and you
can hear a "seized piston becoming loose" type of
sound when this happens. Before I throw more parts
at it I wanted to see what you guys think and if
you agree with my direction here.
>
>2. The engine.
>
>It's a bit hard to start at first and wants to
stall but once it gets going the idle is smooth
and stays on no problem. I think the issue here
might be fuel pressure decreasing after shut off.
If you stop it, it starts right back up. This
problem is only there after its been sitting for a
while. I've checked the carbon canister solenoid
and it doesn't seem to be getting power. I did the
test for it by jumping the posts under the knee
bolster and there was no clicking sound at all. I
replaced it with another unit and that didn't
solve it either. I measured resistance on both
valves that I have and they check out. Bentley
says there is supposed to be continuity between
terminal 2 from this valve/solenoid connector and
fuse #24 but there was none. I tried tracing wires
but couldn't come up with much. I don't know
exactly how they are routed, it gets pretty fuzzy
once you get between the fuse box and under dash
relay wires. Speaking of relays, there is an
> empty spot(knee bolster) with actual wires going
to it labeled "IRA relay". Any of you know what it
stands for and if it's supposed to be present?
There are also two spots for relays listed on the
fuse box cover for AC under spots "6" and "11".
Are these also supposed to be present or are they
empty spots? They both have wires going to them
too. Haven't tested AC on this car yet. The
seller said it doesn't work anyways so I assume
bad compressor (looks like it leaks) but that
hasn't been my priority right now.
>
>When in neutral you can open the throttle all the
way and rev the car up but it gets stuck around
4250 RPMs at which point it begins to sputter
violently and pop VERY loudly. I think it's
hitting the fuel cut because the dash displays 1.9
bar when this happens. That's the highest I was
able to get it so far. I've never seen an Audi
make full (or more) boost in neutral so this led
me to believe the car is overboosting for some
reason. When this violence takes place you can
hear the ECU clicking constantly too. If you just
let it idle after one of these episodes (aka
hitting that 4250 spot for a few seconds) the
wastegate frequency valve starts clicking as if
it's receiving a bad signal. Now I've checked this
valve with one out of my S4 and although they are
not the same part numbers I figured it should
still show a sign of improvement. Nothing changed.
I've been down the road of checking every
component with the output test and a multimiter.
Everything
> seems to work fine.
>
>There were a couple boost leaks which I fixed and
now the system can hold 20psi no problem. I took
apart the wastegate suspecting a bad diaphragm but
it is in perfect shape. No holes at all. I checked
it very well twice. I know what a bad one looks
like from my first Audi ('86 5K CS Q) and can
assure you it isn't the problem. I feel like I've
eliminated everything at this point which made me
start looking at the ECU. I had a feeling it
wasn't stock, even thought the rest of the car is
all original. Well, what do you know? When I took
it apart I noticed the higher value(2.5) BOSCH
pressure transducer and aftermarket eproms (both
of them). I took pictures of all of these so maybe
you guys can help me figure out what company's
software this is. The little white labels say HOB
on top outlined by black marker. The rest should
be very legible. Also when you take these stickers
off there is a little glass window which allows
you to see inside the chip. Took a
> picture of that too hoping it might help
identifying them.
>
>The fault codes I get are:
>
>2111 (rpm sensor). I checked out the flywheel and
all the teeth are fine. So are the timing
reference pins. This led me to believe it might be
a faulty RPM sensor. I replaced it with a known
good one and it made no difference.
>
>2341 (oxygen sensor limit exceeded). The car is
old and I don't know its history so I figured I'd
replace the O2 sensor anyways with a genuine BOSCH
OEM unit (no splicing). Of course this didn't
solve the problem but I thought I'd put it out
there.
>
>What else can I say to help...
>
>I checked the distributor gear and it actually
has the updated metal unit so no issue there
either. I've done checks on everything from air
temp sensor to TPS and everything in between. It
all looks fine and/or measured within spec.
>
>When the car is under load you can still only get
it up to 4250 RPMs before all hell breaks loose.
You have to get it up there gradually though. It
WILL cut off at any point if you attempt to floor
it (unlike in neutral).
>
>Pretty much what I've come up with so far is that
a part of the ECU is faulty and causing mayhem.
What would limit the amount of boost the car
makes? The pressure transducer or one of the
eproms? I'm thinking this is where the codes and
overboost are coming from. I'd love to swap the
ECU with a known working unit but I don't have
that luxury. Maybe putting in stock chips and psi
trans. might work. I don't know, I'm open for
suggestions before I go out buying another
computer. The board seems to be socketed but I
don't have the stock chips or transducer to check.
>
>I'm in the Washington D.C. are if any of you are
local. Or, I could perhaps send my ECU to one of
you guys to test it in your car. I'd offer payment
for anyone's trouble.
>
>
>Here's a link to the 5 pictures I took:
http://img130.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img3987cropped.jpg
>
>Please click on each one you'd like to see and
then click again to view the full size.
>
>
>Thanks for listening. I'm sorry it's so long, but
I tried to make it as detailed as possible. If you
need ANY other details just ask away.
>
>Dan B.
>
>
>P.S. I did a fresh full on timing belt kit on
this car so there is no problem with any timing
marks being misaligned. It had no impact on my
issue but I had to do it anyways. Again, not
knowing the history of the car.
>
>
>
>
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