checking that the rotor is turning on the no-start 91 200 TQ 20v

Bernie Benz b.benz at charter.net
Wed Nov 3 13:58:33 PDT 2010


Jim,
I will fwd my dist. timing instructions. Should check this while  
you’re in there.


On Nov 3, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc.  
wrote:

> Do you normally remove the intake manifold to gain access to it.  I  
> was able to release the two retaining clips, but once I confirmed  
> the rotor was turning, and determined that the Hall sensor timing  
> was not something I was going to be able to visualize in the  
> distributor, I tried to put the clips back on and it was total  
> frustration.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Benz" <b.benz at charter.net>
> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: checking that the rotor is turning on the no-start 91  
> 200 TQ 20v
>
>
>> No retaining screws involved, just hard to reach spring clips.
>>
>> Your codes:
>>
>> 4411, 4412, 4413, 4414, 4421 are injectors for cyl. 1 thru 5  
>> respectively.
>> 2111 Engine speed sensor. No start symptom!
>> 2411 No such code.
>>
>> Bernie
>>
>>
>> On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg.,  
>> Inc.  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Bernie.  I've wanted to do that but the retaining screws   
>>> were difficult to get to for pulling off the distributor cap, so   
>>> that is on my list of things to do.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Benz"  
>>> <b.benz at charter.net>
>>> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 4:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: 1991 TQ 200 20v with 26k miles
>>>
>>>
>>>> Have you verified that the dist. rotor turns when cranking?
>>>>
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 30, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg.,   
>>>> Inc. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am the guy in NH with the 1991 TQ 200 20v with 26k miles and   
>>>>> no start
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> I read up on how to pull the codes from the black,brown, and  
>>>>> blue connectors
>>>>> in the driver's footwell.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got a test light/buzzer combination and that combined with  
>>>>> the normal
>>>>> buzzers in the background was really distracting, but I think  
>>>>> I   have the
>>>>> codes now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first code using the blinking improvised test
>>>>> light method is 4414,  I believe I recorded a code 4411,  
>>>>> 2111,   2411, and
>>>>> 4412.  Can there be that many codes that come up on a no-start  
>>>>> condition?
>>>>> Can someone tell me what the codes indicate with my no-start  
>>>>> condition? Is
>>>>> there a table of Audi codes posted somewhere?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks in advance for all replies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim in Lebanon, NH
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: <200q20v-request at audifans.com>
>>>>> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 3:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: 200q20v Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Send 200q20v mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> 200q20v at audifans.com
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   1. Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>      (Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc.)
>>>>>>   2. Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>      (Tony Hoffman)
>>>>>>   3. Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>      (Brian K. Ullrich)
>>>>>>   4. RE: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>      (kneale at knitknacks.com)
>>>>>>   5. Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>      (feelstranger)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>> -- -- -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:18:31 -0400
>>>>>> From: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID: <08DF2CF3FEAE43B3BD29EC239BD15057 at DellInspiron531>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to    
>>>>>> discuss many
>>>>>> VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on   
>>>>>> special test
>>>>>> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in  
>>>>>> 1991. Recently
>>>>>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no- 
>>>>>> start, cranks
>>>>>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed   
>>>>>> the large
>>>>>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs   
>>>>>> and noted
>>>>>> they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what   
>>>>>> looks like a
>>>>>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and  
>>>>>> got   fuel to
>>>>>> spray out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay   
>>>>>> since that
>>>>>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what   
>>>>>> other areas
>>>>>> should I look for a problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in  
>>>>>> advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:06:44 -0500
>>>>>> From: Tony Hoffman <auditony at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
>>>>>> Cc: liste Audi <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>> <AANLkTinHm6iuzScZMVW2jfs3Zn5emS926OD3o7L2aC5n at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim, it sounds like you are getting fuel, if it's spraying  
>>>>>> out  of hte
>>>>>> banjo bolt at the fuel rail. Just out of curiosity, can you  
>>>>>> feel  the
>>>>>> fuel pump relay click when cranking?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be checking for spark next. If you have none, it's a  
>>>>>> matter of
>>>>>> what is causing that, and probably not firing the injectors   
>>>>>> also. Is
>>>>>> the tach bouncing while cranking? If not, you may have a bad  
>>>>>> reference
>>>>>> or timing sensor. Or, perhaps a bad connection or a (God   
>>>>>> forbid) mouse
>>>>>> chewed wire. Anyhow, let us know what you find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, and just out of curiosity, where are you at?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Jim Hollander at Hot Grips   
>>>>>> Mfg., Inc.
>>>>>> <Jim at hotgrips.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to  
>>>>>>> discuss many
>>>>>>> VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on   
>>>>>>> special test
>>>>>>> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in   
>>>>>>> 1991. ? Recently
>>>>>>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-  
>>>>>>> start, cranks
>>>>>>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel. ?I changed   
>>>>>>> the large
>>>>>>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark  
>>>>>>> plugs  and noted
>>>>>>> they were all dry. ?I loosened the front banjo bolt on what   
>>>>>>> looks like a
>>>>>>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and   
>>>>>>> got fuel to
>>>>>>> spray out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay   
>>>>>>> since that
>>>>>>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix. ?In what   
>>>>>>> other areas
>>>>>>> should I look for a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves? ?thanks in  
>>>>>>> advance.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> 200q20v mailing list ? ? http://www.audifans.com/mailman/  
>>>>>>> listinfo/ 200q20v
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:01:43 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Brian K. Ullrich" <bullrich at ullrichsys.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
>>>>>> Cc: "<200q20v at audifans.com>" <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID: <8A70DDCF-98FA-42D5-ADE0-296F52C30FE8 at ullrichsys.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Tony. Having just gone through this myself, I'd   
>>>>>> start with
>>>>>> spark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI, the fuel pump assy is IN the fuel tank, and is dirty  
>>>>>> nasty smelly
>>>>>> business. Last resort sort of stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 21:18, "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg.,  
>>>>>> Inc."
>>>>>> <Jim at hotgrips.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to  
>>>>>>> discuss many
>>>>>>> VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on   
>>>>>>> special test
>>>>>>> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in  
>>>>>>> 1991. Recently
>>>>>>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-  
>>>>>>> start, cranks
>>>>>>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed   
>>>>>>> the large
>>>>>>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark  
>>>>>>> plugs  and noted
>>>>>>> they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what   
>>>>>>> looks like a
>>>>>>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and   
>>>>>>> got fuel to
>>>>>>> spray out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay   
>>>>>>> since that
>>>>>>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what   
>>>>>>> other areas
>>>>>>> should I look for a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in  
>>>>>>> advance.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> 200q20v mailing list     http://www.audifans.com/mailman/  
>>>>>>> listinfo/ 200q20v
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:33:37 -0400
>>>>>> From: "kneale at knitknacks.com" <kneale at knitknacks.com>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>> To: jim at hotgrips.com,  200q20v at audifans.com
>>>>>> Message-ID: <380-2201010529123337791 at M2W129.mail2web.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have fuel spray, you have fuel pump operation, so I'd   
>>>>>> look to
>>>>>> electrical issues.  Review the stuff on Scott Mockry's  
>>>>>> resourceful
>>>>>> website:
>>>>>> http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/nostart.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Original Message:
>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>> From: Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc. Jim at hotgrips.com
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:18:31 -0400
>>>>>> To: 200q20v at audifans.com
>>>>>> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to    
>>>>>> discuss many
>>>>>> VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on   
>>>>>> special test
>>>>>> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in  
>>>>>> 1991. Recently
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-start,   
>>>>>> cranks
>>>>>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed   
>>>>>> the large
>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>> filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs and   
>>>>>> noted they
>>>>>> were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what looks   
>>>>>> like  a fuel
>>>>>> rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and got  
>>>>>> fuel  to spray
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay   
>>>>>> since that
>>>>>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what   
>>>>>> other areas
>>>>>> should I look for a problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in  
>>>>>> advance.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 200q20v mailing list http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/  
>>>>>> 200q20v
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>> -- -
>>>>>> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and  
>>>>>> application
>>>>>> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:53:57 -0400
>>>>>> From: "feelstranger" <feelstranger at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>>> Message-ID: <BAY152-ds209079F56C256679B50280CF450 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that a Typo??  Did you really mean 26K miles?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:18 PM
>>>>>> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to  
>>>>>>> discuss many
>>>>>>> VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on   
>>>>>>> special test
>>>>>>> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in  
>>>>>>> 1991. Recently
>>>>>>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-  
>>>>>>> start, cranks
>>>>>>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed   
>>>>>>> the large
>>>>>>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark  
>>>>>>> plugs  and noted
>>>>>>> they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what   
>>>>>>> looks like a
>>>>>>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and   
>>>>>>> got fuel to
>>>>>>> spray out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay   
>>>>>>> since that
>>>>>>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what   
>>>>>>> other areas
>>>>>>> should I look for a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in  
>>>>>>> advance.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> 200q20v mailing list http://www.audifans.com/mailman/ 
>>>>>>> listinfo/ 200q20v
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 200q20v mailing list
>>>>>> 200q20v at audifans.com
>>>>>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of 200q20v Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
>>>>>> ***************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 200q20v mailing list http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/  
>>>>> 200q20v
>>>>
>>>
>>
>



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