[ba] A8

Thu May 11 20:52:35 EDT 2006

Like I said before, it's because of PAINT that you don't mix the two and 
100% of the problems are sloppy prep work and dirty work areas, not the 
fact that steel is 'contaminating' the aluminum.

It's got nothing to do with mixing tools, particularly since all tools 
that are used to work with aluminum are in fact steel.  The problem here 
is poor prep work and the fact that aluminum is 'sticky' compared to 
steel.  Coupled with a poor understanding of the material, it's not 
surprising they got poor results.

Not to be snide or anything, but most 
Bugatti/Ferrari/Maserati/Auburn/Cord/Alfa collectors would be ecstatic 
to have the place I was at working on their cars.  It's often used as a 
marque of provenance for collectors, and their cars have one top prize 
at Pebble Beach seven times.  And I did not work on any cars, I was just 
there to learn from the master craftsmen, 10 hrs a day for 4 days.

I'm just trying to put a little knowledge in this discussion, but you 
are free to believe whatever you want.

Chris.

no1of consequence wrote:
> well im glad that shop isn't working on my bugatti.. =)  i DEFINITELY 
> remember reading about the 'steel contaminating aluminum' issue and im 
> almost positive it was from audi on an audi site in regard to the a8.
> 
> a quick google search:
> 
> http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-press.pl?&&20032117&TE&&SME&
> 
> Body shops need separate areas where only aluminum is repaired and 
> perhaps $10,000 in tools exclusive to aluminum.
> 
> Otherwise, contamination from steel--even dust from steel repairs 
> nearby--begins corroding the aluminum.
> 
> ''For years and years, shops, including my own, would straighten 
> (conventional) cars in one bay and right next to it, straighten aluminum 
> cars. People would come back with paint problems, little spots the size 
> of a pinhead popping off the aluminum,'' says Lou DiLisio Jr., president 
> of Automotive Industry Consulting, chairman of the Society of Collision 
> Repair Specialists and a body-shop operator in Westchester County, NY, 
> until 1994.
> 
> 
> form another link:
> 
> And then there's aluminum. At least five cars come with all-aluminum 
> bodies and frames, including the Audi A8, Acura NSX, Honda Insight, 
> Mercedes CL, and the new Jaguar XJ8. So far, few body shops are 
> authorized to fix these cars. For example, only 13 body shops nationwide 
> can do repairs on the XJ8. So if you wreck one in a remote area, 
> insurance companies will factor in the cost of shipping it to an 
> authorized shop.
> 
> Body shops that deal with aluminum have to wall off separate work areas 
> and buy tools separate from those used on steel cars. That's because 
> steel shavings can contaminate aluminum.
> 
> Because aluminum is difficult to weld, most parts are "bonded" (glued) 
> and riveted together. A riveting tool to replace aluminum parts costs 
> $10,000. Another tool to remove rivets runs $9,000. The total investment 
> in training and tools to run an aluminum-body repair shop can run as 
> much as $200,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Chris Maresca <ckm at crust.net>
>> To: no1of consequence <iin10ded at hotmail.com>
>> CC: Steven.Buchholz at kla-tencor.com, ba-group at audifans.com
>> Subject: Re: [ba] A8
>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:16:40 -0700
>>
>>
>>
>> no1of consequence wrote:
>>> what i read [forget where] is that a body shop requires totally 
>>> separate facilities, tools, etc for alum and steel, because if any 
>>> steel shavings, dust, etc get onto bare alum  it will corrode the 
>>> metal. aka if a sander is used on steel it can not be used on aluminum.
>>
>> That's completely untrue.  I just spent the weekend in a shop that 
>> restores Bugatti's (yes, those Bugatti's, including the first one ever 
>> made) working with aluminum, taking it from flat sheet to body panels 
>> and welding it.  Aluminum is very, very easy to work with, much easier 
>> than steel, but you do have to know what you are doing (it's very easy 
>> to anneal and work harden) and have the right tools.
>>
>> As far as aluminum corroding, that pretty much happens the instant 
>> bare aluminum is exposed to air, steel or no steel has little to do 
>> with it.
>>
>> I think that the reason that they require separate shops is because of 
>> paint prep (aluminum is much more fiddly) and the structural epoxies 
>> that are often used would have issues if steel fillings got in them.
>>
>>> that said the 8 is a KILLER used deal.  =)
>>
>> Totally agree, although there are few others out there, here's my 
>> short list:
>>
>> Audi A8 1998-2000
>> Audi A6 4.2
>> Jaguar 1999-2000 XJ8/XJR
>> Jaguar 1996-97 XJR
>> Jaguar X-type (A4 alternative)
>> Lincoln LS (not everyone's cup of tea, but a great car that's pretty 
>> cheap)
>> Mazda RX8 (these fairly new cars seem to be depreciating fast)
>>
>> At the higher end of the scale, I've see Maserati Coupe's (the new 
>> model) for around $35k.  Not bad for a car with a Ferrari engine.
>>
>> I just bought an XJR as a replacement for an Alfa 164 sedan.  It going 
>> alongside the CQ (which is a bit beat) as a daily driver, with the 
>> Alfa up for sale soon.
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>>> jr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "Buchholz, Steven" <Steven.Buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
>>>> To: "BA quattro" <ba-group at audifans.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ba] A8
>>>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:50:16 -0700
>>>>
>>>> ... and they would only need to get involved if the *space frame* was
>>>> damaged ... this would be for repair of the "ASF" parts.  I thought 
>>>> that
>>>> today Audi had built more cars that made use of the ASF.
>>>>
>>>> Steve B
>>>> San Jose, CA (USA)
>>>>> one thing to note, i THINK that there are 15 or so Audi approved body
>>>> shops
>>>>> to fix the A8.  But, what about Rovers?  I bet that there are a lot
>>>>> "approved" shops for these rigs meaning why could they not fix an A8?
>>>> In
>>>>> terms of reliability, I have looked at several A8s in the past and
>>>> found the
>>>>> ones to buy is the "series 2" A8s.  I think they were released in 2000
>>>>> (maybe 2001).  The major update being a new transmission.  I have
>>>> "heard"
>>>>> these series 2 A8s are much more reliable then the original A8.
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>>>
>>>
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> 