[BiturboS4] suspension upgrade

[S Stiles]

hotmail timed-out on my last send; hopefully this isn't a repeat for folks.

Todd, thanks for the informative reply. This is great info on H&R stuff.

What it boils down to, for me, is this:
1) I found a cost effective solution that I'd recommend to anyone who wants
to firm up the handling of their S4 while still preserving great compliance
& near-stock ride (the Bilsteins). By the way, I don't consider <$500 for
the Bilsteins, versus $1200+ for coilovers, to be an insignificant
difference. Also, I didn't want to lose 1+ inches of ride height. We've only
got ~4.5" of clearance to begin with :)

2) I'll pose a question: can we agree that, theoretically, a well matched
H&R-spring/Bilstein-damper setup would handle identically to a H&R coilover
setup w/the same specs, and would cost the consumer less? If so, great. If
not, why?

Scott
'02S4Avant
'00S4

>From: Todd Sager <todd at awe-tuning.com>
>To: biturbos4 at audifans.com
>Subject: Re: [BiturboS4] suspension upgrade
>Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:55:41 -0400
>
>Scott writes:
>
> > My final & most vocal rant on the subject. For now :) Mainly prompted by
> > Wally's assertion that going coilovers is the "right" solution for
>everyone.
> >
> > - Just because you're buying "coilovers" doesn't mean they're any good,
>or
> > that they meed your needs. there are good coilovers & bad coilovers. I
>think
> > H&R Makes a good spring product, but I don't know about the quality of
>the
> > dampers. Some have said they are Bilsteins, but I haven't seen any
>proof.
>
>
>Yes, they are Bilstein internals.  We are an H&R WD and partake in
>informational visits at the H&R factory in Lennestadt, Germany each
>year.
>
>
> > I don't get the impression that H&R has track tuned their coilover
>setups, so
> > IMO they're as much a poseur choice as anything else.
>
>H&R does extensive road and track R/D of all their products.  Bear in
>mind, however, that the H&R "street" coilover is a suspension package
>tuned primarily for street driving.  That is not to say that it cannot
>be used on the track, just that the spring and valve rates as well as
>height adjustment are tuned with comfort flexibility as two of the
>development goals.
>
>
> >Also note that for
> > some the top-most setting on the H&Rs will probably be lower than the
>want
> > to go (no, they don't allow near-stock height).
>
>They allow ~1" lower than stock, which fits the bill of the majority of
>S4 aftermarket enthusiasts.
>
>
> > - Stasis, from what I know, actually races Audi A4/S4s, and has some
> > experience around what it takes to actually make Audis handle. They
>build
> > spring/shock kits all the way up to expensive & super expensive coilover
> > setups. My guess is that a stasis "street" spring+shock setup is going
>to
> > result in a superior handling car when compared to H&R "streets" or any
> > other number of lower end coilover systems.
>
>Not to take anything away from Stasis, as Paul Lambert definitely cares
>about his products, but H&R works at the top levels of motorsports, and
>are more than qualified to build a superbly handling suspension.
>
>For a very comprehensive overview of what H&R does with motorsport,
>please visit this site and click on the motorsports button:
>
>http://www.hr-spezialfedern.de/english/html/framepage.html
>
>
> > - The stock suspension is pretty darn good. Yes, it's soft, but the
>entire
> > package is incredibly competent, especially given the comfort level it
> > offers. There's no need to throw everything out if you're after subtle
> > improvements.
>
>I highly disagree.  The stock suspension is overly tuned to comfort for
>most aftermarket enthusiasts, and allows a tremendous amount of body
>roll at the limit.  The H&R street coilovers offer a huge improvement in
>all aspects of handling with hardly a sacrifice in comfort.  They ride
>nearly identical to stock on the S4.
>
>
> >
> > Like I said before, IMO, the stock suspension's biggest failing is
>damping.
> > That can be fixed by better dampers :) I think there are a lot of people
>out
> > there throwing money away on coilovers when a simpler/cheaper solution
>would
> > meet their needs.
>
>Actually, I would say that the springs are the problem with the stock
>suspension handling issues when pushed hard.  The dampers actually are
>relatively stiff, which is why the stock suspension does not ride plush
>like a Caddy.  Springs rates cannot control weight transitions, which is
>why there is so much body roll.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Todd
>A.W.E. Tuning
>215-658-1670
>Orderline 888-565-2257
>http://www.awe-tuning.com
>
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