[BiturboS4] Rumor(s) Behind The New S4

Thu Sep 26 12:55:11 EDT 2002

Bill,

Only TIME will tell whether S4 Biturbos will decline siginificantly in value or stabilize due to limited availability. Porsche 951s have seen their prices rise recently (had been declining for YEARS)because of limited availabilty (of well maintained used ones) and the fact that the enthusiast mkt has been re-awakened to technology of these mid 80s-early 90s cars.

Pound for Pound, a modified 951 can deliver as much (or more)HP/Torque as a 911 (or Boxster), at SIGNIFICANTLY less cost (to upgrade). Granted these cars are NOT fetching 911 prices, but these cars are NOT 911s. The American public's perception of a Porsche is a 911. That is the DIRECT result of MARKETING by Porsche. Thus, 911s (and Boxsters)are PERCEIVED as better, and can command higher (new and used car)prices.

Bottom line, I can get similar specs as the new S4 with LESS "out of pocket" via performance mods than purchasing and financing a new S4, which by the way, will ALSO depreciate just like the S4 Biturbo.

It is VERY rare for any (mass produced)car to hold its new car value or appreciate above that. The car manufacturer is working AGAINST u by introducing new models. My point is that the newer model should purposely have better (and not marginally better)specs than the previous MY to induce current model holders to "trade up" as well as bring in NEW customers. Believe me, Audi will be looking for "trade ups" as well as brand new S4 customers. In fact, one could argue that "trade up" customers are MORE important because they have ALREADY shown a COMMITTMENT to your brand. Ask any marketing guy, whether they are hawking cars, stereos, or liquor.

At this time, I cannot see a siginificant reason for "trading up" to a new S4, so my $$$$ will stay in my pocket (except for performance mods on my Biturbo). Others, can spend their $$$, as they wish.

just my $.02

jy

billbachman at att.net wrote:

>Matt,
>
>I think your comments are spot on.  Particularly the pricing issue.  
>
>There is something to be said re: the "V8" issue - the torque & HP being RIGHT
>THERE IN YOUR FACE.  Don't have to wait even a microsecond for it to "spool up".
>
>Prices will go down for current S4's, so just enjoy 'em.
>
>Bill
>> Matt,
>>
>> I think u missed a crtitcal point in your response to my statement. The point is
>> QUANTITY. The 2.7TT was a mass produced car, and when it the NA shores, it did
>> decrease the value of other Audi cars that seemed to be stable until the 2.7TT
>> came along. From what I heard, Audi NA does NOT plan to sell V8TTs (RS6
>> sedans/avants) in significant numbers. In fact, there will be significantly less
>> RS6s hitting NA shores than 2.7TT S4s.
>>
>> The other factor is economic. If the RS6 is being positioned by Audi NA against
>> the M5 sedan, then a significant amount of the Audi (performance oriented)car
>> buying mkt will be LEFT OUT.
>>
>> Thus, the only option for those who want the panache of owning a TT, or that
>> "smack u back into your seat feeling" of driving a (twin) Turbo will have no
>> other option than a MY 2000-2002 S4.
>>
>> In my opinion, these factors will keep the value of the MY 2000-2002 S4s fairly
>> stable. Remember, for basically $1k, I can purchase a chip and get nearly the > same performance of the NEW 8 cyl non-turbo S4. If I make exhaust upgrades too,
>> I can probably exceed the specs of the NEW 8 cyl non turbo S4 for about $4k. Why
>> would I pay a premium (over the MSRP of a 2.7T S4) of $8-$10k for a NEW S4? It
>> offers NO significant performance upgrades over the 2.7TT S4. Anyone willing to
>> spend $45k+ for that car (the NEW S4), needs a lobotomy, in my opinion.
>>
>> I think the NEW S4 is a mistake.Your money would be better spent trying to
>> purchase an RS6 (good luck due to the limited importation to NA), or the next
>> generation BMW M3 (rumored to be an 8 cyl), which should have BETTER specs than
>> the NEW 8 cyl S4 for the premium (in MSRP) that u will be paying. I think Audi
>> should have positioned the RS6 to compete with the new BMW M3 and have an RS8
>> compete against the M5. That is how I would have positioned things in North
>> America (NA).
>>
>> In fact, during our conversation, the sales guys at my local Audi > dealer(reluctantly) agreed with me on those points. At the end of the day, basic
>> economics (supply/demand) and marketing (making buyers believe that the next
>> model is inherently superior to the existing model - I believe that Audi failed
>> on this point with the NEW 8 cyl S4) controls the value of an automobile.
>>
>> jy
>>
>> Matt twentyV <matt_20v at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> I recently bought out the lease on my 00 S4, and
>> >> now I am glad that I did.
>> >> The biturbo S4 will soon become a limited
>> >> production run (2000-2002) and
>> >> its value should remain the same or possibly
>> >> increase due to limited
>> >> inventory
>> >> Just wanted to pass this tidbit along.
>> >>
>> >I think an examination of history would suggest
>> >otherwise.  Take for instance, the '92-'95 ur-S4.
>> >In late '99 prior to the 2.7TT S4 reaching the US,
>> >the urS4's were running $22-25k for clean stock
>> >examples (I was seriously considering one before
>> >deciding to take the plunge for the new one).  Once
>> >the 2.7TT started shipping here, prices on the old
>> >ones plunged.  Today, clean examples can be found for
>> >$12-15k.  And the inventory of the urS4 is much
>> >smaller- fewer than 3000 were sold (source-
>> >http://www.urs4.com).  I can't find any reference
>> >to actual quantities of the new S4, but I remember
>> >seeing numbers in the 10's of thousands.  (If anyone
>> >has a link to actual figures, please post it).
>> >
>> >Even the extremely rare '95.5 S6 Avant can now be
>> >found for around $20k, whereas they were closer
>> >to 30k prior to the new S4 and S6 Avants shipping
>> >here.
>> >
>> >So my guess is that prices on our beloved V6 biturbos
>> >will drop when the new V8TT hits our shores.  I don't
>> >like it either, but thats life.  Just drive your
>> >car and enjoy it.
>> >
>> >Matt Rooke
>> >'91cq- 5cyl engine NLA
>> >'00S4- V6tt soon to be NLA
>> >
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