[BiturboS4] New to list, a little long

Wed Aug 27 07:22:47 EDT 2003

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I knew SOMEBODY who knew the Allentown area would bring up Rt. 22.  :)  Tha=
t road doesn't count!  Being the most horribly designed limited access high=
way in the world, it is constantly backed up.  But it is easy to avoid it a=
nd I rarely ever drive on it.

-Russ

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Adler [mailto:adlere at sourcecodecorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:41 PM
To: Russell Romano
Cc: biturbos4 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [BiturboS4] New to list, a little long

    I have to take exception to that - I also have to use the gas pedal( in=
 way too small amounts) to get there and the brake pedal(way too frequently=
) if I don't want to hit someone. But yes, I'm only driving at a few percen=
t of capacity which seems to be what you're getting at. But the both the A4=
 and S4 at least are pleasant cars to be in even if they aren't going fast =
and the automatics don't complain even in stop and go.
    Yeah, the tip is slower and mushier than a manual. Anytime you get a to=
rque coverter thats the nature of the beast. What I'd really like to check =
out is a multitronic quattro when they get around to making them. No torque=
 converter to slush things up at all, but complete variability with full ma=
nual and full automatic modes. No clutch though if they're necessary to you=
. I think they still have a few bugs to work out though.
    Allentown, huh? I've been stuck in traffic around there. I used to live=
 near West Chester and drive up to upstate NY through your area. I recall g=
etting stuck on  22 a few times.  In a manual.
I guess if you stay away from the city that helps.
TTFN
Al

Russell Romano wrote:

I fully agree that a manual in traffic is complete misery.  I don't "commut=
e" and I avoid traffic at all costs.  But you basically agreed (in differen=
t words) that 90% of the time you are "steering" the car, not driving it.  =
Stop and go traffic is not what an audi does well... so you may enjoy the a=
menities of the luxury aspect of the car, but the subtleties of the car tha=
t make it a driver's machine are lost in that environment.

As for it becoming a moot point... that might happen if they hang on to the=
 FULL manual aspect, including a clutch, and add an automatic override mode=
.  If they simple add "tip" functions to an automatic trans they can keep i=
t=2E  I haven't driven a auto-manual yet that actually responds IMMEDIATELY=
.  The lexus trans with the buttons on the wheel was pretty decent, but sti=
ll not a substitute for a real manual trans.  Now, I'm not claiming that I'=
m "faster" with a manual or I can shift better than the automatic, just tha=
t I don't feel like I'm "driving" the car unless I have complete control ov=
er the trans including the clutch, not just the gear ratios.

I'm certainly in the minority because even in areas like this (Allentown, P=
A) where traffic is virtually non-existent, > 99% of cars sold are automati=
cs.  That might drop a bit in the Audi/BMW/VW style cars, but it is still t=
he vast majority.

I just had to travel 250 miles to pick up my A6 with a manual trans.  Even =
the 2.7T A6 which would inherently attract a more "enthusiast"-type buyer a=
re mostly all automatics.

-Russ

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Adler [ mailto:adlere at sourcecodecorp.com <mailto:adlere at sourcecode=
corp.com> ]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:01 PM
To: Russell Romano
Cc: biturbos4 at audifans.com <mailto:biturbos4 at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [BiturboS4] New to list, a little long

As a Tip owner who considers himself a driving ethusiast I'll say I used to=
 feel the same way you did before I moved to northern VA. Why did I buy a T=
ip then? Two reasons:
    #1, while you still can't beat a manual for 0-60, weight, and overall t=
orque capacity the 5 speed Tip tranmission is vastly unit over the typical =
American 4 sp of the early 90's.  It  actually is rated for the same MPG as=
 the manual in the S4 so its an efficient unit. It usually is in the gear I=
 want; I seldom even have to use the Tip function in everyday driving.
    #2, due the the miserable unceasing traffic in the DC area most of the =
time I'm driving shifting gets to be an chore. Add in a cell phone, stereo,=
 beverages, and other distractions having the hand free is useful to stayin=
g on the road. When you're stuck in stop and go traffic I don't think anyon=
e finds shifting fun; some of you are fortunate enough that where you live =
isn't a traffic nightmare - yet.
    Overall, I miss the manual on the open road or during spirited driving.=
 I wish that was more than a few percent of my driving time. For the other =
90% of my driving time when the car is really just transporting me while I'=
m stuck behind some idiot who's slowing me down to the speed limit or less =
I appreciate that the Tip is doing the work for me and I can still enjoy th=
e luxuries of the S4. Maybe I'm just getting lazy.
    The other thing I'll miss is building some sort of sick Stage 4 type se=
tup but I'll probably get a lot more life out of the engine this way and sp=
end a lot less. I still have a manual in my old Callaway Scirocco if ever g=
et the itch to shift. And with the way transmission tech is going I'll bet =
soon this arguement will be moot; with the clutchless manuals and multitron=
ic technologies coming along you'll soon have the best of both worlds - ful=
l manual or full automatic in the same efficient lightweight box  in a car =
that doesn't cost as much as a house.

Al

Russell Romano wrote:

I'd say most... no offense to anyone here, but the vast majority of these c=
ars are sold as automatics!!!  What does that say about the "driving enthus=
iast" level of the buyers?  I think most people buy german cars to express =
their financial status, not because they understand the difference inherent=
 in the car itself.

In certain BIG cars that you are never going to drive hard I can understand=
 it, other than that, an automatic transmission belongs in a mini-van.  Onc=
e you give up the manual trans YOU are no longer "driving" the car, you are=
 simply steering it.

-Russ

-----Original Message-----

From: John Koenig [ mailto:johnkoenig at greennet.net <mailto:johnkoenig at green=
net.net> ]

Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:40 PM

To:  biturbos4 at audifans.com <mailto:biturbos4 at audifans.com>

Subject: Re: [BiturboS4] New to list, a little long

There are many people in BMWs and Mercs that don't seem

especially held up

by that "requirement," not to mention Audis and Volkswagens!

----- Original Message -----

From: California Fields   <mailto:cfields72 at hotmail.com> <cfields72 at hotmail=
.com>

Owning a german car requires that one know how to drive.

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