[Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin A6 2.7T with blown turbos

dap128 dap128 at hotmail.com
Tue Feb 3 19:29:23 EST 2004 

My car is definitely stronger on K04s than it was on K03s.  It doesn't run
out of breath at the upper RPMs like it did with the K03s.  I dynoed it a
few weeks ago and saw 305 hp and 343 lb.ft. of torque at the wheels
(actually hubs, it was a dynapack dyno).

The increased lag really isn't noticeable.  In a highway run with a K03 and
K04 S4 in the same gear, the K03 car might pull maybe 1/2 car length ahead
initially (probably not even that much though) on the initial WOT
application before the K04 car picked up steam and pulled ahead.

MAF sizes, the OEM MAF (both Bosch and Hitachi) are about 73mm at the
sensor.  They top out at 320-330 g/sec of air (which is in the mid to high
300's horspower-wise).  The RS4 MAF is 83mm at the sensor.  However, you
can't just swap out the MAF for the RS4 one without software changes or
otherwise taking account of the change in airflow measurement.  Also, the
RS4 MAF won't mate up to the stock airbox.  It requires an RS4 airbox.

The Stage 3 kits typically include a larger MAF, larger injectors, a fuel
pump (depending on the kit... AWE's uses the stock pump) and sometimes a
higher pressure FPR.

-Dave Pramanik

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "California Fields" <cfields72 at hotmail.com>
To: <Biturbos4 at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin A6 2.7T with blown
turbos


> Dave, how much more power do you get out of just the K03 -> K04 upgrade
> (i.e. keeping stock chip and other components)?  Or, is the power output
the
> same but just shifted (i.e. same hp peak but higher up in the rpm)?
>
> Cal.
>
>
> >From: "David Pramanik" <dap128 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <adam.schwartz at rcn.com>, <Biturbos4 at audifans.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin A6 2.7T with blown
> >turbos
> >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:20:10 -0500
> >
> >The K04 is slightly larger in terms of the housing size than the K03.
And
> >you are right, the K04 is more geared towards higher boost, higher RPM
> >applications than the K03s with are for low end torque.
> >
> >Putting K04s (and inlet pipes since the K04 inlets are larger) into an
> >otherwise stock S4 would work fine.  There would be slightly increased
> >airflow at the same boost levels, but the stock fueling system can more
> >than
> >compensate for that (it meters fuel based on the incoming airflow).  I am
> >presently running K04s on a standard K03 chip with no problems.  I am at
> >the
> >upper limit of the MAF and fueling system, but I'm not running overly
lean.
> >If I increased the boost, I would be, hence the requirement for larger
MAFs
> >and injectors with the complete K04 kits (which run more boost than than
> >the
> >K03 chips do).
> >
> >-Dave Pramanik
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <adam.schwartz at rcn.com>
> >To: <Biturbos4 at audifans.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:53 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin A6 2.7T with blown
> >turbos
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > I think K03 and K04 turbos are about the same age in terms of
> > > design.. And I dont think the K04 was intended to replace the
> > > K03.
> > >
> > > I have seen both side by side and the K04 impeller diameter
> > > is larger, but very slightly. They are intended for higher
> > > boost applications.
> > >
> > > Here is a good pic of the 2. The K04 is on the right
> > >
> > > http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/turbo/lo4lko4r1.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > In theory, if you put a K04 into the S4 and drive it at or
> > > slightly over the standard boost of a stock S4, the turbo
> > > could last longer because it isnt being pushed as close to
> > > its limmit - But I have heard that if you dont make a bunch
> > > of other changes, and just put in the K04 chip your mixture
> > > will be off... Is it lean? Maybe someone could talk about
> > > what the minimum requirement is to replace the K03 with K04's
> > > in terms of other parts needed...
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > > ---- Original message ----
> > > >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:26:28 -0800 (PST)
> > > >From: robert weinberg <centaurus3200 at yahoo.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin A6 2.7T
> > > with blown turbos
> > > >To: David Pramanik <dap128 at hotmail.com>
> > > >Cc: Biturbos4 at audifans.com
> > > >
> > > >so, what is the benefit of the K04? i understand they
> > > >are slightly larger. but it seems wierd KKK would have
> > > >too very similarly sized turbos. do you think, more
> > > >likely, that the K04 is a revised and tougher version
> > > >of the K03? maybe admitting the problems with the K03?
> > > >
> > > >will the K04s infact last longer and end this whole
> > > >blown turbo problem?
> > > >
> > > >hey, why don't i throw some K24s on the 2.7T motor?
> > > >;-) kidding, aren't those the twin turbo porsche
> > > >turbos?
> > > >
> > > >Robby
> > > >
> > > >--- David Pramanik <dap128 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> K04s are (slightly) larger than the stock K03s.
> > > >> They don't spool up faster,
> > > >> but the size difference is pretty small so the
> > > >> increase in lag is probably
> > > >> less than 500 rpm.  Peak torque will be higher with
> > > >> a K04 due to higher
> > > >> boost/more airflow, but it will be delayed slightly
> > > >> due to the small
> > > >> increase in lag.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Dave Pramanik
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Michael Benno" <mbenno at yahoo.com>
> > > >> To: "David Lau" <toomanycars at mac.com>; "robert
> > > >> weinberg"
> > > >> <centaurus3200 at yahoo.com>
> > > >> Cc: <Biturbos4 at audifans.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:43 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Replacement turbos - buyin
> > > >> A6 2.7T with blown
> > > >> turbos
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Your points are very good. The list is not a
> > > >> proper maket representation.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > However, regarding your comments on the spool up
> > > >> time of the K04 vs.
> > > >> K04...Most people (on Audiworld) who have done the
> > > >> conversion to K04 claim
> > > >> much faster spool up times. I can't say much about
> > > >> the torque but mathmatics
> > > >> would lead me to believe that torque is directly
> > > >> related to boost, so that
> > > >> must be higher too. To be honest I really don't know
> > > >> the mechanical
> > > >> differences between the two.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Anyone care to enlighten me?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mike Benno
> > > >> > a6 2.7t MTM1
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > David Lau <toomanycars at mac.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Sounds like a plan to me, Robby, you may never go
> > > >> back to the SHO!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > But I do think the K03 problems are out of
> > > >> proportion on this list. What
> > > >> > percentage of biturbo owners worldwide are on this
> > > >> list, maybe 5%? and
> > > >> what,
> > > >> > 10% of us have had failures? Total guesses, you
> > > >> understand. And we're
> > > >> harder
> > > >> > on them than most, chipping and all, yet probably
> > > >> maintain them better
> > > >> too,
> > > >> > so that may wash. (How many average owners even
> > > >> THINK about that cold,
> > > >> thick
> > > >> > oil squeezing through those tiny passages at
> > > >> startup?)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I've heard the K03s were designed for torque, not
> > > >> feindish horsepower
> > > >> > anyway. Being small, they spool quickly, and give
> > > >> full rated (stock)
> > > >> torque
> > > >> > at only 1800rpm. High rpm, sure, they run out of
> > > >> cfm to maintain high
> > > >> > boost...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > David
> > > >> > --
> > > >> >
> > > >> > some of you know i am lurking on this board
> > > >> > researching A6 2.7T as my potential next car
> > > >> (along
> > > >> > with the 540i 6 speed). well, what about buying an
> > > >> A6
> > > >> > 2.7T with blown turbos wholesale. either private
> > > >> party
> > > >> > or from a dealer that just wants to get rid of it.
> > > >> > then put a K04 upgrade on it and be happy?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > am i dreaming? what do you guys think?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > > >> > Biturbos4 at www.audifans.com
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> > > >> >
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