[Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability & Replacement Cost (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)

Wed Aug 31 13:28:05 EDT 2005

A couple ways to look at it...

I think it makes much more sense to replace and upgrade after the stock turbos decide to quit, this way you maximize the usage of the K03s, and probably give you extra time to save up for the eventual upgrade.

However the downside is that usually you're in a panic mode to gather all the necessary part, so you may not have the time to shop for the lowest/best prices around.

But if you want to do it purely as an upgrade, then go ahead and do it whenever, as long as you have the dough and you are committed to the car for a while.

Quincy

----- Original Message -----
From: Rohan Singh <rohanj_singh at yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:59 am
Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability & Replacement Cost (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)

> Thanks for the info Quincy. I'll begin to save up! Any
> opinions on whether it is worth switching to Ko4's on
> a car with around 100K kilometres (About 62K miles)?
> I'm planning to keep the car to the very end so maybe
> it is huh?
> 
> --- Quincy Chiang <b5quattro at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Rohan and all,
> > 
> > I got this form someone on the AW B5-S4 forum today
> > who recently went to Stage 3-.  Here're the cost of
> > his upgrade (all prices below are USD):
> > 
> > $2,700 - K04 turbos w/ inlet pipes (supposedly K03s
> > are more expensive than K04s!)
> > $325 - Piggie downpipes
> > $450 - RS4 clutch
> > $40 - manual boost controller (required to run with
> > K03 chipped software)
> > $2,500-3,000 - Labour + miscellaneous stuff (hoses,
> > RS4 engine and tranny mounts...)
> > = $6515 USD
> > (= $8144 Cdn)
> > 
> > Now if your car wasn't chipped before, than add the
> > cost of that, about $700 depending on which flavour.
> >  Then add $1000 for an exhaust to compliment the
> > heavier breathing, all of a sudden you're sitting at
> > $8,215.  if you're anywhere close to 60k miles, you
> > better get the timing belt and water pump (and
> > othere related stuff) done as well, so add another
> > say $600.  The total comes to $8,815 ($11,019 Cdn). 
> > What you get is a much more reliable torque monster,
> > probably getting 350hp at the crank, not too shabby
> > at all.
> > 
> > So lets say the turbos go in 3 years time, you'll
> > have to save up $245/month starting now for this
> > procedure.  But then we haven't even touched other
> > stuff yet, like tires, brakes, suspension and other
> > miscellaneous stuff that probably won't cost a whole
> > lot to fix, but will seriously put a dent to you K04
> > fund when you add them all up.
> > 
> > For me right now from the financial side of things,
> > if sh!t hits the fan in say 3 years, I can probably
> > afford to go Stage3-, but that means I'll have
> > nothing that year going ito my savings and RRSP, and
> > I'll be living pretty poorly for a while.  I can do
> > it but common sense keep telling me this ain't
> > right.
> > 
> > The worst part is, looking at the North American
> > auto market for the next 2 model years, there's
> > nothing out there I like and can afford.  The Mini
> > Cooper S is the only car right now that I like... 
> > I'm just freaking torn on what to do!
> > 
> > Quincy
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rohan Singh <rohanj_singh at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:26 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability &
> > Replacement Cost (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)
> > 
> > > The discussion about turbo failure always gives me
> > the
> > > jitters after hearing the mileage at which S4
> > owners
> > > experience this! I bought my 2001 S4 with a build
> > date
> > > of July 2000 in August last year in Toronto with
> > 78K
> > > kilometres - not miles. The car now has 103K
> > > kilometres and the turbo's sound fine except for a
> > > slight "dentist drill" sound when under load
> > between
> > > 1500 - 2200 rpm - I don't really remember hearing
> > this
> > > sound for the first few thousand kilometres after
> > > buying it, but again I am beginning to get to know
> > my
> > > car a lot more after tuning in to this forum and
> > > perhaps I wasn't paying attention before. I can't
> > hear
> > > any sound at very low rpms or above 2200 RPM. I
> > have
> > > no idea how the car was driven by the first owner
> > but
> > > the car was in great condition and completely
> > stock
> > > when I bought it from an Audi dealer with the 2
> > year
> > > certified warranty. I have kept the car stock and
> > > changed the oil (synthetic) every 4000 kilometres
> > > since 78K. The car runs beautifully and I enjoy
> > > driving it every single day - never fails to give
> > me a
> > > rush! I always warm up and cool down. I keep
> > wondering
> > > at what point I am going to experience turbo
> > failure.
> > > I do know that if the cost of replacing a turbo is
> > > around $7K Canadian and this happened after my
> > audi
> > > assured warranty expired next July, I would go
> > ahead
> > > and do it. Just the taxes on a new audi A4 (lets
> > say
> > > 50 grand after really loading it up) come close to
> > 60%
> > > of that cost! I feel that the styling is timeless
> > and
> > > that it will go down as an Audi classic. Does
> > anyone
> > > know about the total cost of upgrading to to a
> > full
> > > package for the K04's (turbo's, chip, exhaust,
> > > etc.)and if there are any independent shops in
> > Toronto
> > > that do this kind of work? If my turbo's go, they
> > had
> > > better do so before my Audi Assured warranty
> > expires
> > > next summer! Maybe I should just drive my car hard
> > for
> > > the next few months hoping that they will die out
> > > before the warranty expires!
> > > 
> > > Rohan
> > > '01 S4 Manual
> > > 
> > > --- Quincy Chiang <b5quattro at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi Grant, JY and all,
> > > > 
> > > > This has been an interesting and informative
> > > > discussion.  From what I've read and heard on
> > these
> > > > list and AW forums, it seems like luck has more
> > to
> > > > do with the turbos failing than anything else. 
> > > > Obviously chipping kills them a lot sooner, and
> > > > people they have chipped their 2.7t should
> > realize
> > > > that, but even non-chipped car are not safe from
> > it
> > > > either.  Someone on this list 2 weeks ago (sorry
> > I
> > > > forgot who) had his turbos bit the dust at the
> > > > tender age of 52k miles, and he supposedly
> > followed
> > > > all the usual procedures like proper warmup,
> > > > cooldown and uses synthetic oil, and his car
> > wasn't
> > > > chipped.
> > > > 
> > > > So we've established how and why the turbos fail
> > (ok
> > > > maybe not, it still seems more like a black
> > art), my
> > > > next question is how many owners are actually
> > > > willing to shell out $7500 Cdn ($6000 USD) to
> > > > replace those pesky K03s when they meet their
> > maker?
> > > > 
> > > > Based on the above and maybe one other recent
> > > > failure cases (both cars not chipped), lets say
> > the
> > > > turbos die at somewhere around 55,000 miles
> > > > (~88,500km), right now I'm more than half way
> > there,
> > > > and I expect to get there within 3 years.  At
> > that
> > > > mileage, I'd definitely have the timing belt job
> > > > done while the engine's out, and perhaps replace
> > the
> > > > clutch as well, so that'd bring the total to
> > nearly
> > > > $10,000 Cdn ($8000 USD).  But here's the kicker,
> > why
> > > > would you put in K03s and you can get K04s for
> > just
> > > > a little more money?  It makes sense from the
> > > > reliability perspective, and I'm not one to
> > refuse
> > > > some extra power.  But once you do that, it
> > quickly
> > > > snowballs into other things to get a decent
> > stage 3-
> > > > setup, like K03 chip/software, higher fuel
> > pressure
> > > > regulator, MBC, exhaust and maybe downpipes. 
> > Then
> > > > you'll need some custom tuning with a VAG-COM,
> > which
> > > > can be fun and/or frustrating at the same time.
> > > > 
> > > > The thing is that once the turbos die, you now
> > must
> > > > replace them just to get the car running,
> > otherwise
> > > > the car's worthless, can't even sell it.  And
> > once
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
>        	
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