[Biturbos4] VAG-COM

[Andy Turner]

For whatever reason, I don't think I received Richard's original, so
I'll have to respond to it in Igor's quote. Hopefully he quoted it
100%.



>Richard Ness wrote:
>> On the contrary (Uwe Ross).
>> 
>> He has always been helpful and goes out of his way to provide not
>> only a great product (VERY reasonably priced), but a very high level
>> of customer support as well. 

Then we simply have differing experiences/opinions of him. Remember
that I said "I've found Uwe Ross to be..". I'm sure he's very helpful
most of the time - he seems to be on the VAG-COM list (though of
course he's supporting his product and has a vested interest in doing
so). However, WRT to any topic he doesn't want discussed, then I stand
by my opinion - since that *is* how I've found him to be. Wait until
you find yourself with what you consider to be a perfectly valid
opinion which turns out to be one he doesn't like - then you might get
to see what I mean.


>> In your past "dealings with him" (Uwe Ross) on
>> <mailto:VAG-COM at yahoogroups.com> VAG-COM at yahoogroups.com,
>> you were being a bit obtuse you got called on it. It was, IMHO, well
>> deserved.

In what way was I being obtuse? Do you have an example of this? Is
having a different opinion considered being obtuse?


>> The only messages that may have gotten 'moderated' were when it got heated 
>> and they were probably not only off-topic, but I'd bet they contained
>> language deemed inappropriate.

Well then you'd be totally wrong. They *never* contained such language
(however, I did get a fair degree of it in return - usually off-list
and all duly ignored of course), and they were always about VAG-COM.
They only contained an opinion, POV or fact that Uwe would rather not
be seen publicly on the list. Hence they got deleted. The discussion
regarding the true cost of the cables was quickly hushed up if you
recall.


> All of the main discussion's messages are still there,

No they're not and you simply *cannot know* whether they are or not.
Only Uwe knows how many messages of people's he deletes because he
doesn't like what they have to say. Uwe even retrospectively deleted
various messages of mine to remove all trace of various topics.


>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VAG-COM/messagesearch?query=turner
>> for all to read. Uwe did NOT moderate you in the way you infer below.

Yes, he did. I'd like you to state how *you* know just what messages
he moderated of mine. You can't have seen them, so *how* do you know?


>> Low blow!!

Obviously not, since you clearly do not actually know. This behaviour
is typical of someone just supporting Uwe rather than being objective.
I saw a lot of that at the time IIRC. I had people going on at me
about things I didn't even say...


>> 
>> As many of us on  <mailto:VAG-COM at yahoogroups.com> VAG-COM at yahoogroups.com
>> told you before, when you
>> ranted about the price and the ant-piracy etc, was that Uwe's products are a
>> BARGAIN and would still be so at double the price.

People seem to think it's cheap because the alternatives are so much
more expensive. This is surely flawed logic. These people must be
dream punters for salespeople - "this week it's half price, so it
*must* be a bargain!".


>> Quit whining already. You were wrong then and you are wrong again now.

Er... this isn't a wrong/right issue. This is opinion. It is my
opinion that the cost of the USB cable/dongle is expensive. It's also
my opinion that the dongle is unnecessary to the user and that it's
wrong to ask the user to directly pay for it.

You may have a different opinion of that - you're welcome to your
opinion.


>> Yet you continue to back-stab Uwe, months later.
>> 
>>  <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VAG-COM/messagesearch?query=turner>  

This was hardly random sniping! This was in response to someone else
that had expressed a desire to avoid having to pay Uwe Ross a
considerable amount of money for a different cable - *exactly* the
position I was in.

Perhaps Uwe will be upset that he can't quite moderate *every* list.
If he'd not been doing it on the VAG-COM list, then I wouldn't hold
the opinion that leads me to make that comment elsewhere.




Onto Igor..

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:41:01 -0500, Igor Kessel <KBATPO at comcast.net>
wrote:

>I am with Richard all the way. I happen to know Uwe personally since I 
>live nearby. He is a great guy and is always willing to stretch a 
>helping hand to a fellow German car enthusiast. He's also honest to a 
>fault.

Like I said to Richard, your mileage may vary. Personally I found him
to be different. Different scenarios clearly bring out different
behaviours in people. You may change your mind if you find yourself
with an opinion he doesn't agree with. I would have heartily agreed
with you about Uwe before I found myself in that situation.


> I would like to remind all newbees out there that before he came 
>out with his great affordable product our only option was a mediocre 
>$800 diagnostic package, written in VB3. Short of a $5,000 VAG1551 that is.

Like I said to Richard, it's flawed logic to suggest that something is
good value just because an alternative is very expensive. You're not
even comparing like-with-like - you're comparing a completely
different tool which does a similar job. In any case, I always
maintained that the cost of the software was not expensive - but
rather the cost of the cables and the fact that he fits them with
dongles and then charges the customer for the dongles.



andyt