[Es2] Good news and bad news...

Mon Dec 8 16:00:44 EST 2003

Thanks peter, that helps a lot. I've been thinking about it and it does seem
very likely that I'm 180 degrees out. Although, is it possible even though
the distributor was never removed? Shouldn't the rotor always point forward
when the mark on the cam gear is at TDC? Or does it alternate every second
revolution? I will go about trying to rotate the cams independently of the
crank first, because that's the easiest. If it still doesn't start, then
I'll pull the distributor.

Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Schulz" <peschulz at cisco.com>
To: "Ben Klumper" <bklumper at mdbworld.com>; <es2 at audifans.com>
Cc: "Miller, Chris" <chris.miller at infofoundry.com>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Es2] Good news and bad news...

> Ben:
>
> The "no start" makes it sound like the distributor is out of position.-
hence the "faulty hall sender code"
> Its very liekly that the distributor position is 180 degrees off.
>
> Check the crank position in the flywheel window, and make sure that the
hash mark on the cam gear is within the wedge mark on the valve cover.
> If both of these markers are correctly aligned and the cap is off, the
dist rotor should be pointed at the #1 cylinder, which is a about the 8
o'clock position relative to a viewer leaning over the drivers side fender
toward the engine
>
> Scott Mockry's website has a bunch of pictures for this.
>
> If you DO have to remove the distributor, I have removed two of them
WITHOUT removing the intake manifold.
> Remove the plug wires and the dist cap...The trick is to remove the ISV to
give you some room to reach around the back of the engine, and use an open
ended wrench ( a stubby one) or one for those nifty racheting box wrenches
to remove the distributor bolt.  put some light on the intake manifold and
look down at the distributor to see the bolt.
>
>
> HTH
> -Peter
>
>
>
>
> At 01:44 PM 12/8/2003 -0500, Miller, Chris wrote:
> >It's been quite a while since I ran output tests on a car not running.
Give Peter Schulz a shout; he can run codes tonight on a working wagon or
two and see if they ever "skip" that code.  If not, might be an issue with
wiring; the ECU needs to know if there is a signal or not.
> >
> >
> >--- 
> >Chris Miller
> >Training Development
> >[i] The Information Foundry at Robert Bentley, Inc.
> >Tel: 617.528.4113
> >Cell: 978.844.0293
> >mailto:chris.miller at infofoundry.com
> >http://www.infofoundry.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Ben Klumper [mailto:bklumper at mdbworld.com]
> >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:20 PM
> >To: Miller, Chris
> >Subject: Re: [Es2] Good news and bad news...
> >
> >
> >Chris, I did exactly that; cranked the engine for at least five seconds,
> >left the ignition "on" and pulled the codes. The only code I got was the
> >2113.  When I connected the jumper to get the next code, it gave me the
> >0000.  2111 didn't even show.
> >
> >Ben
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Miller, Chris" <chris.miller at infofoundry.com>
> >To: "Ben Klumper" <bklumper at mdbworld.com>
> >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:02 AM
> >Subject: RE: [Es2] Good news and bad news...
> >
> >
> >Since the engine doesn't start, you should run the codes after cranking
the
> >engine for at least 5 seconds, and don't shut off the key.
> >You should get the 2111 code (no RPM signal when ignition on).  This is
> >normal; the engine isn't turning.
> >There may be a bunch of codes; don't panic.  Fix them in order displayed.
> >Sounds like the 2113 code is the one to concentrate on.
> >
> >--- 
> >Chris Miller
> >Training Development
> >[i] The Information Foundry at Robert Bentley, Inc.
> >Tel: 617.528.4113
> >Cell: 978.844.0293
> >mailto:chris.miller at infofoundry.com
> >http://www.infofoundry.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Ben Klumper [mailto:bklumper at mdbworld.com]
> >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:53 AM
> >To: Miller, Chris
> >Subject: Re: [Es2] Good news and bad news...
> >
> >
> >Could you elaborate? Are you saying that the 2113 fault code that I
pulled
> >is a mistake? Does that mean that there is something more seriously
wrong? I
> >thought that a number of fault codes could be displayed without the
engine
> >running. Also, could this problem be stemming from the fact that I have
> >installed the "wrong" rotor with the wide head?
> >
> >Ben
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Miller, Chris" <chris.miller at infofoundry.com>
> >To: "Matt twentyV" <matt_20v at yahoo.com>; "Ben Klumper"
> ><bklumper at mdbworld.com>; "eS2 List" <es2 at audifans.com>
> >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:38 AM
> >Subject: RE: [Es2] Good news and bad news...
> >
> >
> >You should only see the 2111 speed sensor fault if the engine is not
> >running.  Otherwise you've got a fault!
> >
> >--- 
> >Chris Miller
> >Training Development
> >[i] The Information Foundry at Robert Bentley, Inc.
> >Tel: 617.528.4113
> >Cell: 978.844.0293
> >mailto:chris.miller at infofoundry.com
> >http://www.infofoundry.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Matt twentyV [mailto:matt_20v at yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:56 AM
> >To: Ben Klumper; eS2 List
> >Subject: Re: [Es2] Good news and bad news...
> >
> >
> >Hall sensor or engine speed sensor?  I don't have
> >Bentley here.  The speed sensor fault is always
> >shown, even with motor running.  You can clear it
> >but it comes back next time motor is off.  Assuming
> >it is in fact the hall sensor, I would start by
> >using that multimeter to verify connection all the
> >way to the ECU.
> >
> >-Matt
> >
> >--- Ben Klumper <bklumper at mdbworld.com> wrote:
> >> Hey guys,
> >>
> >> Got back to the garage today and pulled the fault
> >> codes and cycled the output tests. The good news is
> >> the output tests were fine and there was only one
> >> fault code, 2113. The bad news is, 2113 is the hall
> >> sender, which has to be one of the most difficult
> >> things to get at, let alone diagnose what's wrong
> >> with it!  It could be anything from a faulty Hall
> >> Sender or distributor in need of adjustment(fairly
> >> easy fix); a problem with the engine speed sender
> >> and/or reference pin (much more difficult); wiring
> >> (hard to believe since this is one area of the
> >> harness that's plug and play - no splicing); or the
> >> ECU (reeeally hope not, otherwise big $$$)  Bentley
> >> says I need to remove a whole lot of stuff to expose
> >> the distributor. I really don't feel like doing
> >> this, considering it was all just put back together!
> >> I almost feel like towing it to the dealership, but
> >> no one has ever seen this engine in canada!
> >> Anyway, this is the reason why it's not starting. I
> >> was wondering if anyone else has ever encountered
> >> this fault code and what the solution was. I'm
> >> trying to find out if one problem is more common
> >> than the other. I also don't have the electrical
> >> testing equipment that the bentley mentions (all I
> >> have is a digital multimeter), so if there are
> >> alternate test methods out there, I'd love to know!
> >>
> >> Anyway, your help is appreciated!
> >>
> >> Ben
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Es2 at audifans.com
> >> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/es2
> >
> >
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> Peter Schulz
> 1990 CQ (awaiting S2 3b engine transplant)
> 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica
> 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey
> Chelmsford, MA USA
> peter at audifans.com
>