Help, new wheels scraping on '85 Coupe GT addendum:

[edkellock at juno.com]

Another data point....

Driving the V8 tonight with the recently reassigned
(purchased from another qlister) TSW SGV 17x8
with 235-45-17 Dunlop SP8000, well worn, I
approached an intersection rapidly and braking 
firmly so as to not be detained by a yellow-then-red
light.  The road surface in question is heavily deformed
by weighty vehicles and essentially consists of vastly
irregular and deep but smoothly contoured troughs.
The car pitched and pulled extremely abruptly from
side to side. Suffice to say, I'm pleased that I was
not being followed by a police car.

A distinct and unmistakably complete absence of
"unflappability".

Ed
Colorado Springs

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:31:33 -0800 "Fisher, Scott"
<Scott_Fisher at intuit.com> writes:
> Ed Kellock corrects my lysdexia about the ranhard pod, er, Panhard 
> rod --
> thanks, Ed -- and then goes on to comment:
> 
> > In the same vein, I really enjoy the feel of the car when
> > I take off the TSWs with 205s and go back to the smaller, lighter
> > stock wheels and tires.  Go figure.
> 
> BTDT recently with my fair-weather ride, a 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider.  
> A
> previous owner had installed 195-70 tires on widened steel rims -- 
> lots of
> rubber, lots of grip, but not much steering feel.  As a 
> cosmetic/restoration
> step, I acquired the very light "Turbina" style OEM rims and had 
> some
> moderately grippy 185-60 series tires mounted on them.
> 
> Overall it was a mixed blessing (more later), but the steering feel 
> is
> superb -- the whole car feels lighter, more responsive, nimbler and 
> more
> alive.  In particular, throttle steering is enhanced, and the 
> modest
> reduction in contact patch size appears to have been compensated for 
> by
> going with newer (and lower-profile) tires so speed through corners 
> is
> slightly better, but with vastly improved feel and response.
> 
> The negative: going from 195-70 to 185-60 dropped the car nearly an 
> inch,
> and while this results in the usual improvements in center of 
> gravity and
> resulting weight transfer (the car ROCKS on a smooth twisty road), 
> it also
> scrapes on bumps.  Badly.  As in three-foot plumes of sparks out the 
> back
> end if the road is too rough.  Alfas have had finned aluminum sumps 
> since
> before WW I, and it was popular in the Seventies for dealers (and/or 
> owners)
> to add a steel-cage sump guard to protect the brittle aluminum from 
> injury;
> on a recent mountain-road tour, I bottomed out several times (Stage 
> Road
> between San Gregorio and Pescadero, for Bay Area locals) and those 
> behind me
> reported F1-like sparks lighting up the entire underside of the car 
> and
> streaming out well behind the bumper.  I understand it was... 
> dramatic.
> 
> So that's another reason I stayed so conservative in going with a 
> simple +1
> when I upgraded the CGT -- I like the fact that I don't have to 
> choose my
> lines, or my lanes, based on whether or not there's a bump in the 
> road, and
> I liked the steering feel of the car well enough with the 185s that 
> I didn't
> want to lose too much of it.  I seem to have been successful in 
> that:
> whatever increase in effort there may be from going with the 
> marginally
> larger contact patch has been compensated for by going to the 
> shorter,
> stiffer sidewall.  AND the car now has significantly more grip than 
> stock.
> 
> The longer I mess around with cars, the more I believe that balance 
> is more
> important -- in a daily driver certainly, and in competition cars as 
> well
> though to a lesser extent (especially if you have the resources to 
> tune the
> car for individual tracks/conditions) -- than absolute performance 
> in any
> single measure, when that performance is achieved at a corresponding 
> loss in
> other measures.  Yes, 40-series rubber on 19" wheels will result in
> phenomenal grip, *if* the road stays flat *and* it is cambered 
> properly
> *and* the suspension is aligned to take advantage of it *and*... a 
> whole lot
> of other variables.  But what Audis have always been about for me is 
> their
> essential unflappability no matter what the road surface -- even in 
> the
> underpowered 2WD guise as in my very first 1980 1588cc 4000.  My 
> fondest
> memories of that car are of pitching it, hard, into a very bumpy 
> series of
> S-curves near home and being able to hold the steering line and just 
> keep
> the gas pedal flat, and feeling the body undulate slightly while the 
> wheels
> kept pointed in the desired direction.  One of my criteria in the 
> (oh no!
> he's going to say it! :-) ever-present "what is a sports car?" 
> debate is
> that a sports car's suspension is designed to optimize the contact 
> patch's
> size, shape and effectiveness at all times and at any cost to 
> driver
> comfort, while a non-sports car's suspension is designed to optimize 
> the
> driver's comfort at all times and at any cost to the contact patch's 
> size,
> shape and effectiveness.  Audi have always done a better job of 
> optimizing
> -- of balancing -- for *both* than most carmakers, and the 
> responsiveness of
> the cars, the feel and weight of the controls and the way the car 
> moves
> effortlessly through traffic, is what I have always liked about 
> them.
> 
> --Scott Fisher
>   1983 CGT
>   1993 100CSQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
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