20v motors and TAP chips. Part II

[Brett Dikeman]

At 5:18 PM -0500 10/10/00, Eric Fletcher S.O.C. wrote:
>  > So far I have only received negative feedback
>>  regarding the TAP products. What's the scoop? Are they
>>  bad for the engine? Do they not provide what they say
>>  they do? Both?
>
>TAP = BOOM!

Except for the itty-bitty fact that the TAP chip, Ned's chip, and the 
Hoppen chip are all, from what I've been told, -exactly- the same.

Ned's chip differs only in some minor fields used to identify things 
like the engine code the ECU belongs to.  All this information came 
from a member of the 200q20v list who told me he managed to get his 
hands on most of the various chip mods, including ones designed to go 
with RS2 turbos and injectors...that sort of thing.  Take his opinion 
with a grain of salt of course.  He emailed his info to me privately 
months ago...not to the list.

However, I find it -highly- suspicious that a guy up in washington 
state with no r&d capital, somehow managed to turn out a chip that's 
better than (or even equal to) anybody else's, including that of a 
major european tuner, for what is arguably a very complex engine. 
The answer is he probably didn't; he most likely licensed it just 
like Hoppen did(at least hoppen admits they did; Ned flat out lied to 
me on the phone a while back when I was considering buying his ECU.) 
Because of his strong following by, and reputation with, 
enthusiasts...he can charge more for his services.  The prices for 
the various chips are all based on reputation and perception.

This lister also said that he found the quality of the solder job to 
be best in the Hoppen unit; in my opinion, any of the three probably 
does a good enough job for anyone, so I wouldn't really put that high 
on my list of reasons why to choose which vendor.  I would personally 
find inclusion of the old roms and sensor more important.

I wouldn't recommend installing the spring you can buy with the chip 
from TAP; they may not even sell it any more.  That spring -will- 
cause problems.  Why?  Well, with the wastegate frequency valve 
completely disconnected, the 3B engine will still get about 1.3 bar 
of boost.  Installation of the spring will raise that up only god 
knows how much...closer to the maximum boost the engine would run, 
stock(1.83 bar.)  Besides, it's not necessary; TAP's 200q20v mod now 
uses a 2.5 bar sensor; it doesn't need a spring.  According to the 
previous owner of my ECU, Sarge, the chip is good for "277hp."  Mind 
you, Sarge's engine blew..but it wasn't because of the chip.  Rather, 
he noticed large amounts of smoke on startup(very bad sign on a 20v 
engine) and did nothing for a while.  Not a smart move, and he admits 
so.  Oh, and his car had something like 200k on it.   This wasn't an 
S4tt not yet off the lease.

I've spoken to experienced mechanics who run TAP chips in their own 
cars and customer cars.  His opinion was that in almost every case he 
had heard of where a TAP chip was suspected of causing problems, 
substitution of a stock ECU didn't solve any problems and it was 
later discovered that there were mechanical(sensor, vacuum, you name 
it) problems.  I've only heard of a very limited number of actual 
serious problems(no start conditions and the like), and I suspect the 
only reason we've heard of them is Igor's bedside manner.  Other 
tuners probably take care of their customers better, and as a result, 
that customer doesn't bitch to the world.  That's why you have dozens 
of honda dealerships in one state...it isn't about the product, it's 
about the service.

Find me a car that doesn't work well with a TAP ECU, and I'll show 
you a car that doesn't work well with a Hoppen or Ned box...and 
probably not well with a stock ecu, either(though symptoms may be 
more subtle.)

My car has a TAP ecu, and I'm happy with it...have been for almost 
40,000 miles on a car 500 miles away from its 150,000th mile.  I've 
been told I've got a little smoke on strong running...but I've seen 
this in almost every 20v turbo motor of similar vintage or even half 
the age(actually, I've noticed that S6's tend to have a strong 
rotten-egg smell under full boost; I did a run with one up to mt 
washington over several hours.  Every time the hammer dropped, the 
eggs came out :-)

I also noticed that my car -really- likes long drives; after about 2 
hours, the car gets damn zippy and -very- responsive.  Haven't quite 
figured that one out...

Brett
-- 
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Brett Dikeman				Systems Engineer
CFN(formerly iClick, Inc)			914-872-8043
120 Bloomingdale Rd.			914-872-8100(fax)
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