'77 Audi Fox Turbo

[Iain Mannix]

Heh.  I *am* one of those weirdos that believes cars are over-used 
appliances.  I commute by bus and/or bicycle most of the time.  

HOWEVER, I'm not saying we do not "need" cars.  I ski a lot(hard 
to ride my bike from Denver to Berthoud & still have energy to 
ski).  Point is, a Subaru Justy will get most of us from A to 
B as effectively as an S4(yes, slower, less comfy, blah blah 
blah) - cheaper, even.  

I like cars a lot.  I like cars enough to own a 5kcsq - IE, I 
own a car which exceeds my material needs simply because I 
like it.  No problem there - but I'm fully aware that I do not 
NEED something that will propel me up I70 far faster than 
necessary.  I like it, though.

There's nothing *wrong* with Alex's brakes.  He likes them.  Fine.  
Great.  Cool.  

However, to say that the stock brakes are inadequate is flawed - 
the stock brakes can be made to work fine; that's my point(I must 
have bad aim or something, as some seem to be missing it:).  The 
stock brakes, in decent condition, should NOT fade with one 
hard stop, that's ridiculous.  Unsafe, even - if Audi 80 brakes 
really did(normal operation) fade with one hard stop, there'd 
be a Nader committe after them as we speak.  I simply 
do not believe that the 80s brakes are THAT bad.  The 92 GTI 
16v weighs 2400# or so, has 9.4" vented rotors, simplistic 
calipers - and it stops just fine, repeatedly, etc etc etc. A 
smidge faster than an 80, too.  

Whatever:).  All I'm saying(or trying) is that the idea that the 
80s brakes are SO bad that Briaembowood brakes are necessary.

Cars, again.  I like modifying cars.  I (personally, IMHO, not 
trying to belittle, get over it:) do not like modifying 
street cars beyond reliable, easy power (WG springs and whatnot).  
I spend most of my automotive energies on autocross cars - most 
recently a Street Prepared Scirocco, a few Rabbits before that, 
and we're currently putting together an E Prepared Rabbit(sorta 
like GT5 for roadracer types, Street Prepared is closer to 
IT).  It is TOTALLY unnecessary, but a whole lot of fun.  The 
Rabbit is going to be a monster - 1680#, roughly 180hp, 
good front suspension, cage, etc. 

Modifying cars for fun is great.  Do I need to spend all sorts 
of time this weekend stripping the body to a shell?  No.  Do I 
want to?  Yes.  Will it be fun?  Absolutely.  Do I need 
a stupidfast Rabbit in order to spend tons of time and money 
wandering around old airstrips?  Somehow, I doubt it, but it is 
a good time.  

Need vs want - necessity vs luxury.  I have no problems with 
luxuries, but don't try to justify them based on neglected 
brakes:).  

That help?


Iain(yes, this list has a lot of "mods" talk on it - the wrong 
kind in my twisted little world, so MOST of the time I keep 
my mouth shut.....Eibach springs do not make a racecar.  Oops:)
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 JShadzi at aol.com wrote:

> <<I've never seen you try to assert that your car's modifications are based 
> on _NEED_.  I'm all for fast cars, but to claim that the stock brakes are 
> inadequate is silly - they could be improved upon, sure, 
> just about everything can be improved upon - but the stock brakes can and do 
> work just fine for lots of people, including people who roadrace the cars.  I 
> have no problem with spending money on cars for...>>
> 
>      Ok, I see where you are coming from, but where does your logic end?  Do 
> many of us even need cars?  There are alternative forms...its kindof silly 
> IMO, and maybe you have mistaken the demographic or reason for this list.  If 
> you observe many of the threads here, you will see that many of us are 
> intersted in performance upgrades, many of us are performance oriented 
> drivers, and the "need" factor is of little interest.  Once you understand 
> that, maybe some of the conversations here will make more sense.  I for one 
> am not intersted in hearing whether my car "needs" anything, but whether 
> certain modifications will make my car perform better than its already 
> totally unnecesary performance capabilities (do any of us need to hit the 
> revlimiter at 145 mph???)
> Javad
>