Propellor shaft woes

Thu May 24 13:30:20 EDT 2001

Thanks!

It seems that somewhere in the loop, driveshafts are particularly sensitive
to tampering!!

It may be that a new/used complete replacement is in order =(

Cheers,

Peter Berrevoets
1990 200TQ
Toronto, Canada
http://frontpage.home.net/pjberr/

> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Kaklikian, Gary [mailto:Gary.Kaklikian at compaq.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:32 AM
> >To: 1 Quattro List (E-mail); 'Peter Berrevoets'
> >Cc: JShadzi at aol. com (E-mail)
> >Subject: RE: Propellor shaft woes
> >
> >
> >I too have a driveshaft tale (apologies for the length):
> >
> >The driveshaft on my 4000tq was in good condition, the center carrier
> >bearing/support assesmbly having been replaced about 25k
> >miles ago.  But,
> >since I'm interested in getting the best performance out of
> >the car possible
> >and it does have over twice the horsepower of stock, I
> >thought the delrin
> >center support would be a great upgrade.  Additionally, the
> >center diff was
> >quite worn, due to high mileage and driving with it locked
> >on the track
> >frequently.  So, the plan was to install the delrin center
> >support as well
> >as thenew tranny I got last year from Robert Braunschweig
> >and a new clutch.
> >
> >As a first step, the driveshaft was removed and the delrin
> >center support
> >with new bearing installed. The CV's at either end and the
> >u-joint were fine
> >and full of grease.  On the first test drive, I noticed a
> >odd noise when shifting under load and a slight vibration
> >through the seat
> >at part throttle operation between 50-80mph.  Given the
> >nature of the car, I
> >have a high tolerance for noise, vibration, etc, and these
> >were definitely
> >minor and acceptable.  Plus,  power transfer seemed more
> >positive (less
> >driveline slack) when accelerating hard and the drivetrain
> >was smooth above
> >80mph. At this point, I was satisfied with the delrin support.
> >
> >Next, in my constant but often misguided quest for
> >improvement, I decided to
> >have the driveshaft balanced when installing the new tranny
> >and clutch. Only
> >one driveline shop in the whole Denver-Colorado Springs area
> >claimed they
> >could do this.  So, for $52 I had the driveshaft balanced
> >and straightened
> >(the latter was done at the shop's initiative)..
> >
> >My intial test drive with the balanced driveshaft and new
> >tranny and clutch
> >was terrible. The driveline vibration from before was
> >magnified immensely
> >and was speed sensitive, so that above 60mph the car was
> >nearly undriveable.
> >So, I removed the driveshaft and took it back to the shop.
> >The technician
> >mounted it to his balancer with clamps holding the CV's at
> >either end and
> >the center support mounted firmly.  The driveshaft was
> >nearly 50 grams out
> >of balance on either end and 34 grams out in the center!
> >Then he rotated
> >the driveshaft on his balancer and it was only a few grams
> >out throughout.
> >So, he said I need to rotate the driveshaft mounting on the
> >car until it
> >reaches this optimal setting. Well, this is bs!   I've seen
> >Audi driveshafts
> >removed (including mine) a hundred times, and the position
> >of the CV's on
> >the tranny/rear diff is immaterial. Yes, you have to mark
> >the two halves if
> >the u-joint is removed, but otherwise it shouldn't matter.
> >
> >The driveline shop tech had no better explanation and
> >claimed he'd never
> >seen anything lilke this (duh, it's an Audi, although BMW
> >uses similar
> >setups).  Although he offered to send the driveshaft out of
> >town to another
> >shop, I was pressed for time, and said the hell with it,
> >remove the weights
> >you added, so now the driveshaft is back to the original
> >factory weights
> >only (and refund my money).
> >
> >The next test drive revealed the same part throttle vibration between
> >50-80mph as earlier, but again much worse and totally
> >unacceptable. The seat
> >felt like one of those massage beds they used to put in
> >motels. It did
> >smooth out some above 80mph, but I try not to drive 90mph in
> >50mph zones,
> >and there's too much traffic to drive full throttle very often.
> >
> >So, since I had to get the car ready for the track and had
> >other things to
> >work on, I said the hell with this driveshaft, got a used one from a
> >junkyard with the CV's and center carrier in good condition,
> >and cleaned and
> >regreased it. Voila - the drivetrain was as smooth as before
> >this whole
> >fiasco! I do notice some vibration through the accelerator
> >pedal at the part
> >throttle 50-80mph, which has always existed,  but none of this is
> >transmitted through the body. Evidently, the delrin support
> >was magnifying
> >this greatly. What the driveline shop did to the driveshaft
> >I can only
> >imagine!
> >
> >Moral of this story -- Don't f#$% with your driveshaft
> >unless the center
> >support or a CV's has failed. The delrin support might work in most
> >situations, even though it's likely to introduce a slight amount of
> >vibration.  The drivetrain on my S4 is silky smooth compared
> >to the 4000, so
> >it's likely the delrin support would work fine.
> >
> >btw - we fitted a pump and cooler for the tranny fluid,
> >especially for
> >situations when the center diff is locked.
> >
> >Gary Kaklikian
> >86 4ktq
> >92 S4
> >
> >
> >> ----------
> >> From: 	Peter Berrevoets[SMTP:pjberr at home.com]
> >> Sent: 	Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:04 AM
> >> To: 	1 Quattro List (E-mail)
> >> Cc: 	JShadzi at aol. com (E-mail)
> >> Subject: 	Propellor shaft woes
> >>
> >> Having had the oppportunity to obtain a new centre bushing
> >from Javad and
> >> an
> >> SKF bearing, I took the time do do the centre bearing re+re.
> >>
> >> To my serious displeasure I discovered that the cv joints
> >at both ends
> >> where
> >> so badly worn, thaat they were causing the ringing sound
> >that I assumed
> >> was
> >> coming from my sagging centre bushing. Having access to
> >another propshaft
> >> with cvs' in good condition, I swapped the cvs and fitted
> >the new bearing
> >> and bushing.
> >>
> >> Herein lies my nightmare. No amount of messing with the
> >shaft alignment or
> >> balancing of the shaft has had much effect on a vibration
> >that makes the
> >> car
> >> almost undriveable over 90 kph.  I'm getting ready to bite
> >the bullet and
> >> buy a new shaft or hopefully find a good used one.
> >>
> >> Looking for any advice from the list on relatively local
> >(Southern Ontario
> >> Canada or Upper New York State - I am flexible beyond that
> >but closer is
> >> preferred =( ) sources for a new-cheap or good used
> >propellor shaft.
> >>
> >> The one benefit from this whole mess is a stint on the
> >highway (300 km) at
> >> ~95kmh gave me a fuel consumtion figure of 7.1 litres per 100 km,
> >> something
> >> I didn't think was possible in this car. The best I had
> >done previously
> >> was
> >> an 8.9, both verified by fuel receipt and kilometre records.
> >>
> >> Suffice it to say the car is my daily driver, feels like a
> >piece of crap
> >> and
> >> I need to get it fixed =(.  I'm getting really good at
> >pulling this thing
> >> in
> >> and out having done it five times now...
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Peter Berrevoets
> >> 1990 200TQ
> >> Toronto, Canada
> >> http://frontpage.home.net/pjberr/
> >>
> >> Javad - what has been the collective experience on the
> >delrin centre
> >> bearing
> >> bushing when installed correctly? I'm getting everyone who
> >sees the set-up
> >> saying that it's too rigid and will never be vibration
> >free. Any other
> >> installs into a 200Q or other torsen equipped car?
> >>
> >