"All Season" Tires

[Larry C Leung]

Amen.

On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:53:40 -0400 Bryan Rodgers <brodgers at omdc.on.ca>
writes:
>Basically took the words right out of my mouth. :)
>
>There's no doubt a quattro will have little trouble pulling in a 
>straight
>line in snow with all-seasons, it's the cornering and breaking aspect 
>that
>makes winters all the more worthwhile.
>
>Sure if you want to 'pussy-foot' it around town whenever the 
>conditions are
>questionable, that may be fine for some, but personally, I enjoy the
>confidence of a winter tire in negative degree weather.
>
>Honestly, it only takes -one- emergency manoeuvre to make winter-tires 
>pay
>for themselves. Don't know about where you live, but here in Toronto, 
>folks
>pretty much drive like 'a-holes'. It's all about 'defensive' driving 
>as far
>as I'm concerned. And if I gotta dish out an extra $300-400 every 3 
>years to
>avoid physical contact with these 'a-holes', so be it! :)
>
>Here's another winter-tire story for the archive (I know how you all 
>enjoy
>them…):
>Girl-friend who purchased a brand new 1997 Jetta GT (starting to sound 
>like
>a grandpa at the ripe old age of 28 here, geez), got the car with a 
>set of
>really great[sarcasm] Goodyear all seasons. I wasn't able to convince 
>here
>at first that she may want to consider purchasing a snow dedicated 
>tire for
>winter, because what was basically 'ok' for the summer, wasn't gonna 
>cut it
>in the winter. Trust me. Well, it only took the first snowfall when 
>she had
>to call in sick to work, because she couldn't even get the car out of 
>the
>driveway!!!(it wasn't even a big snowfall). She called me up and I had 
>her
>go see my buddy Dave at Steelcase Tire who kindly set her up with a 
>set of
>Nokias. So now, not only could she drive to work in snow(heh heh), but 
>one
>night after visiting me downtown in January, she was heading home up 
>the DVP
>hwy in a pretty sweet snowstorm, and was nearly involved in a serious
>accident involving some -serious- braking and swerving...and a heart 
>attack!
>She called me when she got home to tell me the story (probably still
>suffering from shock) and couldn't praise the tires enough! She swears 
>if
>she didn't have them that she would have been seriously injured, or
>worse...meaning dead, not that her brand new car would've been 
>wrecked. ;)
>
>So, there ya go another testimonial...
>
>No, I don't work for a tire company, and if you choose not to run 
>winter
>tires, stay outta the left lane!
>
>:)
>
>Peace.
>
>B
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry C Leung
>To: rmwoodbury at downeast.net
>Cc: brodgers at omdc.on.ca; quattro at audifans.com
>Sent: 27/10/01 12:41 AM
>Subject: Re: "All Season" Tires
>
>I used to live in the snow belt, and when I had a 60 mile one way
>commute
>(all highway, frequently Icy/Slushy), I determined that a GTi prepped
>for
>Solo 2 racing was totally inadequate for the commute, even with
>dedicated
>snows, hence my first quattro, a 4KQ. Even with the quattro, I found a
>few reasons for dedicated (non studded) snows:
>
>- In heavy slush, the low tread to void ratio makes hydroplaning
>resistance much better (and in a relatively light car, no less)
>
>- in a relatively low powered car (115 HP), the added traction in the
>snow/slush/ice wasn't an issue, especially with quattro, but the added
>braking effect was QUITE noticable (no ABS), things that would cause 
>the
>car to twitch and skid on my all-seasons (BFG Comp T/A HR4s, Firestone
>Firehawk GTH4, Dunlop D60A2 can't recall the others), wouldn't even be
>an
>issue with dedicated snows (Continental Contact TS740, Vredestein Snow 
>+
>and Snowstar, Kelly Pacemark, no Blizzak nor Hakkas on that car)
>
>- Quite possibly I tend to drive fairly aggressively, hence, one 
>weekend
>when we had a freak LATE season (first or second week of May) storm 
>and
>I
>had the D60s on, when I drove around on the D60s the way I drove on 
>the
>snow tires (okay, okay, I was testing them to see how they'd do in
>snow),
>I slid on braking, and actually spun taking a downhill corner on the
>D60s, things I'd normally would have had no problem doing in the same
>way
>on the snows. 
>
>- When I first purchased my 200Q, it had all season Michelin MXVs on 
>it.
>They had limited traction for braking and turning whenever it was 
>snowy
>or slushy, ABS became VERY active. Not an issue on dedicated snows. 
>
>So, emperically, IMHO, you CAN get away with all seasons all year, as
>long as you recognize their limitations, but I don't think you will be
>able to enjoy the drive as much as if you had dedicated snows (at 
>least
>if you live somewhere where snow/ice/slush is a regular part of the
>winter). I'd admit, now that I'm no longer in the snow belt, dedicated
>snows seem a bit overdone MOST of the time, but when the occasional 
>big
>snows do hit, I'm usually the only one able to to go anywhere I want
>without fear (and stop and turn, too!), especially because the roads 
>are
>usually empty!
>
>LL - NY
>
>On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:39:33 -0400 "Roger M. Woodbury"
><rmwoodbury at downeast.net> writes:
>>Well, yes and no.
>>
>>When I owned an insurance business here, I travelled around 45,000 
>>miles a
>>year in the car, and, naturally, a lot of that was in severe winter
>>conditions.  I had a variety of cars during that time, but found the 
>>best
>>vehicles for my specific purpose were Mercedes diesels.
>>
>>My first MBZ was a 190D 2.2 diesel, which was put into service during 
>
>>the
>>time of the 55 mph national speed limit...the good ole "double 
>>nickel".  I
>>ran that car in all weather on its factory spec all season tires, and 
>
>>found
>>the combination of low power and relatively narrow wheels and tires 
>to >be
>>exceptionally good for a rear wheel drive, front engine car.
>>
>>I had an Audi two wheel drive coupe one winter (1982), which was 
>>absolutely
>>wonderful on standard tires, regardless of the weather.....except the
>>combination of relatively short wheel travel, wide, 60 series tires 
>>and hard
>>seats made it an impossible car to use day in day out on uneven rural 
>
>>roads.
>>
>>After the 2.2 Mercedes diesel got around 85,000 miles on it, along 
>>came a
>>better idea from Mercedes, and that was the 190D 2.5Turbo diesel.  
>All >the
>>good things that the earlier car had been, plus some real power and 
>>over the
>>road performance.  The "double nickel" had disappeared, and the 
>>smaller
>>diesel had been really challenged to churn out miles above about 
>sixty >miles
>>per hour.
>>
>>The 2.5 diesel came with "V" rated tires, and with the power that the 
>
>>turbo
>>could deliver, I NEVER considered running the standard tires year 
>>round, and
>>had steel wheels and studded, winter tires for all four wheels.  As I
>>recall, the tires used were Continental radial snow tires that were 
>>double
>>row studded.  Aside from being relatively loud, the traction overall 
>>for my
>>purposes, was excellent, although I never forgot that I was driving a 
>
>>rear
>>wheel drive car.
>>
>>One fall we had an early winter storm that started out in 
>>Massachusetts as
>>rain.  I was at a National Guard Drill in Worcester,a nd got back to
>>Portland, Maine, around ten in the evening.  The Massachusetts rain 
>>had
>>turned into freezing rain, and the roads were periodically covered 
>>with
>>black ice.  The appointment to change the tires and wheels on the 
>>Mercedes
>>was the next week, but when I turned off the Maine Turnpike onto 
>>secondary
>>roads, I came over a rise at about 35 miles per hour, and totally 
>>lost
>>control on the black ice.  The car did two three sixties, and ended 
>>up
>>facing the way I had come, after striking some object frozen into the 
>
>>ground
>>with the right rear tire.  I limped the two miles home, having broken 
>
>>at
>>least two of the rear suspension links.  The change in tires that 
>took >place
>>the next week, involved replacing one wheel and some suspension
>>pieces....about $2200, plus the wheel and tire, as I recall.  The 
>next >year,
>>the tires were changed at the beginning of  October and not the end.
>>
>>After retiring, and moving way "downeast", down the end of a series 
>of >dirt
>>roads in serious rural country, one day I borrowed a 120,000 mile 
>>Audi
>>5000CS Wagon.  I just wanted to try it overnight, and my friend the 
>>dealer
>>had just traded the vehicle.  It was in pretty good shape, despite 
>>the
>>miles.  That night we had about four inches of snow.  I went out and 
>>drove
>>out through the snow like it wasn't there, and I bought that car that
>>afternoon.  My first Quattro.
>>
>>It had Michelin "all season" tires on it, and when I replaced them, 
>it >was
>>with my first set of Firestone Touring LH tires that I mentioned, and 
>
>>I used
>>them on that wagon, and the one that replaced it.  VERY satisfied.
>>
>>I have never used the Graspics or Blizzark tires, although Iknow that 
>
>>many
>>people love them.  From my experience, it is hard to imagine an Audi 
>>Quattro
>>needing more than a set of all season radials with a decent amount of 
>
>>life
>>left in them.  It seems to me that if more than that is needed, then 
>>studded
>>radial snow tires on all four wheels are what should be used....or 
>>maybe
>>even chains.
>>
>>Roger
>>
>>
>>