"All Season" Tires

[Andrew Mabe]

If you buy a motorcycle your gonna need a helmit.  Do you buy the $9.99 
special, or the $400 one that will stop a 50mm at point blank?


>From: Larry C Leung <l.leung at juno.com>
>To: brodgers at omdc.on.ca
>CC: l.leung at juno.com, rmwoodbury at downeast.net, brodgers at omdc.on.ca,        
>quattro at audifans.com
>Subject: Re: "All Season" Tires
>Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:11:01 -0400
>
>Amen.
>
>On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:53:40 -0400 Bryan Rodgers <brodgers at omdc.on.ca>
>writes:
> >Basically took the words right out of my mouth. :)
> >
> >There's no doubt a quattro will have little trouble pulling in a
> >straight
> >line in snow with all-seasons, it's the cornering and breaking aspect
> >that
> >makes winters all the more worthwhile.
> >
> >Sure if you want to 'pussy-foot' it around town whenever the
> >conditions are
> >questionable, that may be fine for some, but personally, I enjoy the
> >confidence of a winter tire in negative degree weather.
> >
> >Honestly, it only takes -one- emergency manoeuvre to make winter-tires
> >pay
> >for themselves. Don't know about where you live, but here in Toronto,
> >folks
> >pretty much drive like 'a-holes'. It's all about 'defensive' driving
> >as far
> >as I'm concerned. And if I gotta dish out an extra $300-400 every 3
> >years to
> >avoid physical contact with these 'a-holes', so be it! :)
> >
> >Here's another winter-tire story for the archive (I know how you all
> >enjoy
> >them…):
> >Girl-friend who purchased a brand new 1997 Jetta GT (starting to sound
> >like
> >a grandpa at the ripe old age of 28 here, geez), got the car with a
> >set of
> >really great[sarcasm] Goodyear all seasons. I wasn't able to convince
> >here
> >at first that she may want to consider purchasing a snow dedicated
> >tire for
> >winter, because what was basically 'ok' for the summer, wasn't gonna
> >cut it
> >in the winter. Trust me. Well, it only took the first snowfall when
> >she had
> >to call in sick to work, because she couldn't even get the car out of
> >the
> >driveway!!!(it wasn't even a big snowfall). She called me up and I had
> >her
> >go see my buddy Dave at Steelcase Tire who kindly set her up with a
> >set of
> >Nokias. So now, not only could she drive to work in snow(heh heh), but
> >one
> >night after visiting me downtown in January, she was heading home up
> >the DVP
> >hwy in a pretty sweet snowstorm, and was nearly involved in a serious
> >accident involving some -serious- braking and swerving...and a heart
> >attack!
> >She called me when she got home to tell me the story (probably still
> >suffering from shock) and couldn't praise the tires enough! She swears
> >if
> >she didn't have them that she would have been seriously injured, or
> >worse...meaning dead, not that her brand new car would've been
> >wrecked. ;)
> >
> >So, there ya go another testimonial...
> >
> >No, I don't work for a tire company, and if you choose not to run
> >winter
> >tires, stay outta the left lane!
> >
> >:)
> >
> >Peace.
> >
> >B
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Larry C Leung
> >To: rmwoodbury at downeast.net
> >Cc: brodgers at omdc.on.ca; quattro at audifans.com
> >Sent: 27/10/01 12:41 AM
> >Subject: Re: "All Season" Tires
> >
> >I used to live in the snow belt, and when I had a 60 mile one way
> >commute
> >(all highway, frequently Icy/Slushy), I determined that a GTi prepped
> >for
> >Solo 2 racing was totally inadequate for the commute, even with
> >dedicated
> >snows, hence my first quattro, a 4KQ. Even with the quattro, I found a
> >few reasons for dedicated (non studded) snows:
> >
> >- In heavy slush, the low tread to void ratio makes hydroplaning
> >resistance much better (and in a relatively light car, no less)
> >
> >- in a relatively low powered car (115 HP), the added traction in the
> >snow/slush/ice wasn't an issue, especially with quattro, but the added
> >braking effect was QUITE noticable (no ABS), things that would cause
> >the
> >car to twitch and skid on my all-seasons (BFG Comp T/A HR4s, Firestone
> >Firehawk GTH4, Dunlop D60A2 can't recall the others), wouldn't even be
> >an
> >issue with dedicated snows (Continental Contact TS740, Vredestein Snow
> >+
> >and Snowstar, Kelly Pacemark, no Blizzak nor Hakkas on that car)
> >
> >- Quite possibly I tend to drive fairly aggressively, hence, one
> >weekend
> >when we had a freak LATE season (first or second week of May) storm
> >and
> >I
> >had the D60s on, when I drove around on the D60s the way I drove on
> >the
> >snow tires (okay, okay, I was testing them to see how they'd do in
> >snow),
> >I slid on braking, and actually spun taking a downhill corner on the
> >D60s, things I'd normally would have had no problem doing in the same
> >way
> >on the snows.
> >
> >- When I first purchased my 200Q, it had all season Michelin MXVs on
> >it.
> >They had limited traction for braking and turning whenever it was
> >snowy
> >or slushy, ABS became VERY active. Not an issue on dedicated snows.
> >
> >So, emperically, IMHO, you CAN get away with all seasons all year, as
> >long as you recognize their limitations, but I don't think you will be
> >able to enjoy the drive as much as if you had dedicated snows (at
> >least
> >if you live somewhere where snow/ice/slush is a regular part of the
> >winter). I'd admit, now that I'm no longer in the snow belt, dedicated
> >snows seem a bit overdone MOST of the time, but when the occasional
> >big
> >snows do hit, I'm usually the only one able to to go anywhere I want
> >without fear (and stop and turn, too!), especially because the roads
> >are
> >usually empty!
> >
> >LL - NY
> >
> >On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:39:33 -0400 "Roger M. Woodbury"
> ><rmwoodbury at downeast.net> writes:
> >>Well, yes and no.
> >>
> >>When I owned an insurance business here, I travelled around 45,000
> >>miles a
> >>year in the car, and, naturally, a lot of that was in severe winter
> >>conditions.  I had a variety of cars during that time, but found the
> >>best
> >>vehicles for my specific purpose were Mercedes diesels.
> >>
> >>My first MBZ was a 190D 2.2 diesel, which was put into service during
> >
> >>the
> >>time of the 55 mph national speed limit...the good ole "double
> >>nickel".  I
> >>ran that car in all weather on its factory spec all season tires, and
> >
> >>found
> >>the combination of low power and relatively narrow wheels and tires
> >to >be
> >>exceptionally good for a rear wheel drive, front engine car.
> >>
> >>I had an Audi two wheel drive coupe one winter (1982), which was
> >>absolutely
> >>wonderful on standard tires, regardless of the weather.....except the
> >>combination of relatively short wheel travel, wide, 60 series tires
> >>and hard
> >>seats made it an impossible car to use day in day out on uneven rural
> >
> >>roads.
> >>
> >>After the 2.2 Mercedes diesel got around 85,000 miles on it, along
> >>came a
> >>better idea from Mercedes, and that was the 190D 2.5Turbo diesel.
> >All >the
> >>good things that the earlier car had been, plus some real power and
> >>over the
> >>road performance.  The "double nickel" had disappeared, and the
> >>smaller
> >>diesel had been really challenged to churn out miles above about
> >sixty >miles
> >>per hour.
> >>
> >>The 2.5 diesel came with "V" rated tires, and with the power that the
> >
> >>turbo
> >>could deliver, I NEVER considered running the standard tires year
> >>round, and
> >>had steel wheels and studded, winter tires for all four wheels.  As I
> >>recall, the tires used were Continental radial snow tires that were
> >>double
> >>row studded.  Aside from being relatively loud, the traction overall
> >>for my
> >>purposes, was excellent, although I never forgot that I was driving a
> >
> >>rear
> >>wheel drive car.
> >>
> >>One fall we had an early winter storm that started out in
> >>Massachusetts as
> >>rain.  I was at a National Guard Drill in Worcester,a nd got back to
> >>Portland, Maine, around ten in the evening.  The Massachusetts rain
> >>had
> >>turned into freezing rain, and the roads were periodically covered
> >>with
> >>black ice.  The appointment to change the tires and wheels on the
> >>Mercedes
> >>was the next week, but when I turned off the Maine Turnpike onto
> >>secondary
> >>roads, I came over a rise at about 35 miles per hour, and totally
> >>lost
> >>control on the black ice.  The car did two three sixties, and ended
> >>up
> >>facing the way I had come, after striking some object frozen into the
> >
> >>ground
> >>with the right rear tire.  I limped the two miles home, having broken
> >
> >>at
> >>least two of the rear suspension links.  The change in tires that
> >took >place
> >>the next week, involved replacing one wheel and some suspension
> >>pieces....about $2200, plus the wheel and tire, as I recall.  The
> >next >year,
> >>the tires were changed at the beginning of  October and not the end.
> >>
> >>After retiring, and moving way "downeast", down the end of a series
> >of >dirt
> >>roads in serious rural country, one day I borrowed a 120,000 mile
> >>Audi
> >>5000CS Wagon.  I just wanted to try it overnight, and my friend the
> >>dealer
> >>had just traded the vehicle.  It was in pretty good shape, despite
> >>the
> >>miles.  That night we had about four inches of snow.  I went out and
> >>drove
> >>out through the snow like it wasn't there, and I bought that car that
> >>afternoon.  My first Quattro.
> >>
> >>It had Michelin "all season" tires on it, and when I replaced them,
> >it >was
> >>with my first set of Firestone Touring LH tires that I mentioned, and
> >
> >>I used
> >>them on that wagon, and the one that replaced it.  VERY satisfied.
> >>
> >>I have never used the Graspics or Blizzark tires, although Iknow that
> >
> >>many
> >>people love them.  From my experience, it is hard to imagine an Audi
> >>Quattro
> >>needing more than a set of all season radials with a decent amount of
> >
> >>life
> >>left in them.  It seems to me that if more than that is needed, then
> >>studded
> >>radial snow tires on all four wheels are what should be used....or
> >>maybe
> >>even chains.
> >>
> >>Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>


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