quattro digest, Vol 1 #3279 - Type 44 Spring/Shock

[TM]

As a counterpoint to Larry's post, I installed H&R springs and
Bilstein Sport shocks in my 200q and have an alignment problem-
one side is maxed out in adjustment and can only get to -1.25 deg.
camber and the other side is maxed out in the opposite extreme of
adjustment and can only get to -1.5 deg. camber. That's a problem.
I may need my subframe realigned and bushings replaced, but I will
slot my upper strut mounts shortly in order to fix the problem.

While the 200q set up as such does not corner like our A4tqw w/
H&R coilovers, it has quite a bit of reduction in roll and dive.
The car feels much better as a result. However, in extreme cornering
situations (like autox), the car still rolls like the big boat that
it is.

Although one can safely use Bilstein Sport w/ OEM springs (BTDT), you
cannot use Bilstein HD with lowering springs- you will blow the shocks.

I didn't consider Koni because I have heard of very high failure rates
with Konis. My car rides rather stiffly, but it's fine with me. The
biggest problem I have yet to address is the unsprung weight- I have
a 50lb. wheel/tire combo on each corner and even larger brakes than
stock,
which is probably the reason why the car does not ride as well as it
should.

Should I ever get the funds to go to a composite rotor, I'll do so and
save
some weight, as well as installing something like SSR Integrals to drop
at
least 5 lbs. per corner in wheel weight alone.

I feel that w/ my current setup, it would probably be a lot better if I
had
my shocks revalved for the dramatically increased unsprung weight.

Taka

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-admin at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-admin at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of Larry C Leung
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:42 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com; jason_chad at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: quattro digest, Vol 1 #3279 - Type 44 Spring/Shock


Jason,

I converted to H+R's and Bilstein Sports from stock on my 200Q. No
alignment issues. I'd be willing to bet that some of your tire wear
issues could be related to worn shocks (cupping) or too much toe (toe
out
- wear on the insides of the tires (towards centerline), toe-in wear on
the outsides of the tires. I have heard that others have had problems
with too much camber, requireing camber plates (if your car is lowered,
as your's is) but it would be helpful if your alignment shop can provide
you (therefore us) the information.

I'm not as excited about the H+R/Bilstein combo as others, it didn't
turn my 200 into a 4K feeling car, but it does provide better roll
control and better initial turn it. I still feel it has too much roll
(may eventually do bars) and it is slightly under damped, but it does
reduce roll significantly from stock. So being it, if you find a shop
that can give you an honest effort in aligning the car (loosening all of
the joints REALLY helps here) I'd stick by the springs in the car for
the reasons mentioned by Mike, i.e. you CAN change the shocks yourself,
use the newly revised archives for help here, though the Bentley is
adequate. This'll save you a significant amount in labor $$$.

As for shocks, most will tell you to go with the Bilsteins, which I feel
aren't bad. (Short springs do almost DEMAND Sports BTW, HD's risk being
forced to run full travel in jounce, risking damage. HD's should be used
for stock springs as Sports may go full travel on rebound, this from the
technician at Bilstein USA I spoke to when I was selecting shocks). In
the future, I MAY consider Koni adjustables to get a little more jounce
control on the front end, but I'd like to ride in a Koni equipped car
before I go that route to see if there is enough rebound control with
the Koni's. I DON'T think that Boge or Sachs HD shocks will have enough
damping to have a good ride with the H&R's, but you'd best check with
one of their tech reps to see if there truely is a good application of
their shocks with the H+R springs (helps if you check with H+R to find
out their springs rates, and get an idea what your car weighs (corner
weights are best)  when talking to their tech departments.

HTH!

LL - NY



>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:58:12 -0400
> From: "Michael Guidotti" <MAGUID at MAIN.DJJ.STATE.SC.US>
> To: <quattro at audifans.com>, <jason_chad at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Suspension Help
>
> Hey Jason,
>
> I spoke with someone from Bilstein a few years back and was told that
> the H= D's and sports were the same except that the sports had more
> rebound resist=
> ance, usually used with after market springs which, typically are
> stiffer. =
> If you look on www.bilstein.com it says "Recommended for use if
> shorter spr=
> ings are installed." for the sports but it does not say why. I have
> on my 8=
> 7 5KTQ H&R springs with bilstein sport shocks up front and Spax in
> the rear=
>  (soon to be replaced with Bilstein).
> If all you are doing is replacing the shocks the front is very easy
> and is =
> something you can do yourself even if you have never done it before.
> BUT...=
>  if you are changing the springs then it becomes much more
> complicated! and=
>  the front can be a MAJOR PITA. the rear of the car is the same
> amount of w=
> ork regardless. the rear is very easy to do, all you really need is
> a sprin=
> g compressor and some basic tools.
> Anyway getting back to your original question I prefer the sports
> but thats=
>  me, it depends on the ride you are looking for. I would recommend
> keeping =
> the H&R springs. The choice of shocks is up to you both are great
> just serv=
> e a slightly different purpose.  Plus if you do have a shop do the
> work the=
> y will charge a LOT less if all you are doing is replacing the
> shocks. and =
> honestly I think you will regret it if you change the springs, stock
> spring=
> s on that car were way too soft. if you have been driving it with
> H&R's the=
>  entire time you have owned the car you might not be very happy with
> the st=
> ock ones. of course this is just mho.
> also I have never had problems getting an alignment and have very
> even tire=
>  wear, you might have some worn bushings in your suspension. a good
> shop wi=
> ll tell you this and should not even attempt to do an alignment
> unless they=
>  are just looking to make money. if they were all done at the same
> place I =
> might look for another shop.
> I was not sure how much info you were looking for so if you want any
> detail=
> ed stuff, just let me know.
>
> good luck,
>
> Mike Guidotti
>
> 87 5KTQ
> 88 GTI 16v
> 02 ZX3
>
> >>> "jason snider" <jason_chad at hotmail.com> 04/13/02 05:18PM >>>
> The struts on my '86 5ktq have some play at the top so I'm gonna go
> ahead and get new shocks at all 4 corners and get new strut mounts and
> bearings. I
> have the H&R springs with stock shocks (PO's setup). I am having
> tire wear
> problems even after having the alignment done multiple times. I
> can't find
> anyone in my area that will slot the mounts, so I think I'm gonna
> try the
> stock shocks with Bilsteins. I may want to use the H&Rs again
> though, so do
> I go with the Sports or the HD's? Shox.com told me to go with the
> HD's while
> another vendor told me to go with the Sports. Any BTDT's?
> Also, I've looked through the procedure in the bentley and it looks
> like the
> fronts may be tough but the rears a little more straightforward. The
> VW shop
> quoted me around $600 for all the work (mounts, bearings,
> shocks/struts
> installed and alignment). Plus the cost of the parts...I'm looking
> around
> 1100-1200!!! I can't afford this so, I'm hoping I can at least do
> part of
> the work myself.
> Thanks,
> Jason
> '86 5ktq
> Cracked downpipe, no aux. H2o pump, worn tires, clunky-bouncy
> suspension =
> =3D
> still fun as hell
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Subject: RE: One touch up, one touch down express window upgrade!
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:59:39 -0400
> From: <David.Ullrich at ferguson.com>
> To: <quattro at audifans.com>
> Cc: <quattro at audifans.com>
>
> Does anybody know if I can get one-touch down if I swap in a relay
> from a type 89 into my type 85 Coupe GT?
>
> Dave
>
> 1987.5 Audi Coupe GT "Special Build" 2.3 - Anthracite Black 1998 VW
> Passat GLS 1.8T - For Sale CHEAP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Simoes [mailto:dans at audifans.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:44 AM
> To: mswanson at mswanson.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: One touch up, one touch down express window upgrade!
>
>
> Very nice mod.  One question - does it have any type of pinch
> protection when closing, say if someone's fingers or arms get stuck
> there (don't
> laugh, I rented a Vectra with one touch up and got my arm stuck in
> there!)
>
> Marc Swanson wrote:
> >
> > Not being satisfied with swapping in the audi relay from the type
> 89 and some
> > type 44s that only allows one touch in one direction, I looked for
> a way to
> > add one touch up, one touch down windows to my 4000.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:00:33 +0200
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> From: Tom Nas <tnas at euronet.nl>
> Subject: Re: Euro Headlight Serial Numbers for 80Q
> Cc: David Miller <millerds at muohio.edu>
>
> David Miller <millerds at muohio.edu> wrote:
>
>  friend of mine is going to Europe soon and I figure that's as good an
> >opportunity as any for me to get some euro lights. My friend is not
> really
> >mechanically inclined at all, and I'd like to make the process of
> getting
> >them as easy as possible for him. Can anyone give me the serial
> numbers for
> >all 3 kinds (h4, h4/h1, and RS2) euro lights that will fit my car
> (a '90
> >80Q), as well as if they are Bosche/Cibie/Hella or whatever brand.
>
> OK, here goes:
> 80 (H4, brand will be either Bosch or Hella- to be stated with your
> order)
> L       893 941 029 H
> R       893 941 030 H
>
> 90 (H4/H1, brand will be either Bosch, Valeo or Hella, to be stated
> with your order. Won't fit your car without relocating the turn
> signals)
> L       895 941 029 B
> R       895 941 030 B
>
> RS2 (Hella DE, H7?, won't fit your car without changing to the B4
> hood, hood slam panel, relocating the turn signals etc)
> L       895 941 029 N
> R       895 941 030 N
>
> This is assuming you drive on the righthand side of the road.
>
> >  He will
> >be traveling across much of Western Europe excluding Britain and
> speaks
> >German fluently. If there are any recomendations on where he should
> (or
> >can) get them, that would be welcome as well.
>
> Sources would be the dealership, there are few non-dealer sources of
> such specific parts here in Europe (none in Holland, I know of none in
> Germany).
> Prices are a lot lower in Germany than they are here, BTW.
>
> HTH!
>
> Regards, Tom
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> From: Marc Swanson <mswanson at mswanson.com>
> Reply-To: mswanson at mswanson.com
> To: Dan Simoes <dans at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: One touch up, one touch down express window upgrade!
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:25:45 -0400
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
>
> > Very nice mod.  One question - does it have any type of pinch
> protection
> > when closing, say if someone's fingers or arms get stuck there
> (don't
> > laugh, I rented a Vectra with one touch up and got my arm stuck
> in
> > there!)
>
>
> Just tried it (but not with any appendages!).
>
> It appears the controller senses when the window is fully rolled up or

> down by change in current draw.  When the window reaches the top or
> bottom of
> travel the motor tries to draw a significantly higher amount of
> current and
> then shuts down.
>
> I threw a folded over towel in the path of the window and it stops as
> it begins to compress the towel.  I doubt it put enough force on there
> to break
> any bones, but again... didn't try that one :-)
>
> Certainly better than a time based controller.. where if your fingers
> were in the way the motor would go full tilt until it felt like
> stopping....
>
> -Marc-
> 87 4ktq
> 88 90q
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> From: Marc Swanson <mswanson at mswanson.com>
> Reply-To: mswanson at mswanson.com
> To: <David.Ullrich at ferguson.com>, <quattro at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: One touch up, one touch down express window upgrade!
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:28:03 -0400
>
> > Does anybody know if I can get one-touch down if I swap in a relay
> from a
> > type 89 into my type 85 Coupe GT?
>
> yes, you can.
>
> There is a link off of my express window page for Huw Powell's
> excellent writeup on that controller:
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/power-windows-onetouch.htm
>
> -Marc-
> 87 4ktq
> 88 90q
>
>
> --__--__--
>
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