quattro digest, Vol 1 #4286 - Re: Tires, ice and quattro (long)

Fri Dec 6 15:24:03 EST 2002

Agreed on all.  The deep blocks will obviously do the
best in new deep snow.  In the NE this is not a
reality with the level of traffic here.  No matter how
"new" the snow, it's a mess of deep black slush in a
matter of minutes.  That's the biggest challenge here.
 Ice and deep, heavy slush.  Actually for me, that's
the worst of all scenarios.  It just happened last
night.  Road is pretty good.  Light slush and in the
far left lane.  About 65 mph.  Passing a "Transport
America" semi on a off camber turn downhill and all of
a sudden it's like somebody dumped a dumptruck full of
slush in the lanes.  I don't know where it came from.
The truck slides left out of his lane.  I went as far
left as I could without going into the bank and
gradually let off the gas.  We all recovered, but it
was the only REALLY nervous moment of my 100 mile
commute through that storm.  Got to get the Blizzaks
mounted THIS weekend.

Jim Accordino

--- Larry C Leung <l.leung at juno.com> wrote:
> My experience coincides with Doyt's and James' with
> an additional comment
>
> Compound makes the difference on ice, but tread
> pattern and siping
> makes the diff on snow.
>
> With the Artic Alpins on my Dad's now my beater
> Subie I have found
> that they are actually rather entertaining in the
> dry and quite competent
> in the wet and on icy surfaces. Where they are
> somewhat weak is on
> fresh or wet snow. There, they accelerate and brake
> okay, but they are
> less than stable laterally and their turn in is less
> than ideal compared
> to other snow tires.
>
> By comparison, the Kelly Pacemarks (most definitely
> NOT high perf snows)
> I've used on both my previous 4KQ and my 200Q aren't
> as good in the dry
> (understeer) or wet, but as good or better on icy
> surfaces. The
> difference is
> that they are totally stable on fresh and wet-heavy
> snow, in fact, on the
> heavier
> 200Q they can be downright boring in snow, it's very
> difficult to power
> slide
> and drift the car, it just digs in (not the same in
> the lighter 4KQ,
> which would
> do both). In all cases, the tires are appropriately
> down one width size.
>
> As all of the tires are dedicated non hi-perf snows,
> I am assuming the
> compounds
> all react similarly to the lower temps (i.e. they
> stay rubbery rather
> than reaching
> the glassing temp (actual technical term according
> to the tire dealer))
> so they only
> difference that I can attribute to the difference in
> new/wet snow
> performance of the
> tires, the tread pattern.
>
> The Pacemarks have many open blocks with moderate
> siping. The blocks are
> tall,
> which is why their dry performance isn't as good as
> the Alpins. The
> Alpins have
> larger, shorter blocks with more siping. The siping
> works great on ice,
> where the
> surface of the ice turns to water which the siping
> sucks up, but in full
> snow, the
> larger shallower blocks don't seem to provide the
> bite that the Pacemarks
> have.
>
> I have used a large number of different snows over
> the years and this
> pattern seems
> to hold true, I've used then cutting edge Vredestein
> Snow +, SnowStars,
> Continental
> TS 730 Ice, Semperit Traction-Grip etc. I do have to
> admit, I've never
> sprung for Hakkas.
> In all, the most aggressive tread pattern was the
> Snow +, which had the
> weakest dry
> performance, but the best snow performance. The best
> dry performing of my
> snows
> was the SnowStars, but they had the weakest snow
> perfomance. All
> performed adequately
> on ice.
>
> So, it seems to get good snow performance, you must
> give up some dry
> performance. If
> all you tend to get is icy stuff, then if the
> compound is a true ice
> compound, I don't think
> it matters.
>
> Any surprises?
>
> LL - NY
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:00:28 -0800 (PST)
> > From: james accordino <ssgacc at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: Tires, ice and quattro (long)
> > To: "Doyt W. Echelberger"
> <Doyt at buckeye-express.com>,
> >         quattro at audifans.com
> >
> > Got it here in NE Pa. last night (2 Dec.).  I'm
> > running Micheln MXV4's right now with high tread
> > levels.  These tires have been really good in the
> > limited snow/slush we've had so far.  Last night
> it
> > was so cold the small amount of snow was freezing
> > almost immediately.  Every stop brought the ABS to
> > full song.  The COMPOUND of the rubber is the key
> as
> > you said.  I checked the tires when I got home and
> > they were like glass.  I ran them this morning is
> some
> > slush residue and colder temps. (8* F) but at
> higher
> > highway speeds.  I think the high speeds brought
> the
> > rubber up to temp., because the tires were much
> more
> > pliable this morning.  Btw, last year I ran Artic
> > Alpins on both the Quat. and the OL's minivan.
> Loved
> > them for exactly the type of conditions you
> described.
>
> ---------stratigic
> clip--------------------------------
> >
> > Jim Accordino
> > --- "Doyt W. Echelberger"
> <Doyt at buckeye-express.com>
> > wrote:
> ------------stratigic
> clip---------------------------------
> > > on 3 year old Arctic
> > > Alpins, and the combination of all-wheel drive
> and
> > > high tech tread really
> > > made a difference.  I didn't have to slow down
> when
> > > everything else was
> > > having trouble staying out of the ditches. It
> was
> > > amazing. I played with
> > > the wheel a few times and tried to fish tail,
> but
> > > couldn't. The Alpins bit
> > > in and it came right back into line.  I pumped
> the
> > > brakes and the car slid
> > > but it was slowing down and grabbing like we
> were on
> > > gravel rather than
> > > ice. I had control.
> > >
> > > I was able to run on the highways at any legal
> speed
> > > I wanted, and on the
> > > side streets where it was sheet ice I could turn
> and
> > > stop the car well
> > > enough to feel comfortable being there.
> -------------------------stratigic
> clip--------------------------------------
> > > Doyt W. Echelberger

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