CIS airflow meter limits HP? (Martin Pajak)

[JShadzi at aol.com]

Ok, Johhny, I've pulled some quotes out of your last email, lets see what we've got...

"as the potential flow of the type 44 airplate is well over 1200 cfm's of air without much probs"

Ok, so the stock airflow plat can flow enough hp for over 800hp??  I'd like to know where you came up with this number, before a bunch of sheep go running off a cliff somewhere.

"as you could easly flow massive amounts of air with just higher velocty"

Oh really, so you can just increase "velocity" to flow more air?  I wish I would have know that before I re-engineered my intake system to remove restrictions and increase flow.  I'm well aware of maintaining velocity to control the flow under certain conditions (mid-rpm performance for example), but I was not aware that velocity could be created from an already restricted passage way.

"I would venture an educated guess that a Audi CIS system has the same amount of "tunabilty","

Venture an educated guess, ok, do you have any experience to draw from?

"and I would assume that anyone capable of building a motor that "might" make 300bhp more than likely has the skills to make a stock based injection sytem work corectly"

Ok, all this guessing and assuming is concerning me, I'd like to know when you've seen this done sucessfully?

"it really would not be a tough job with the right "off the Shelf" parts...and they (the parts)are out there."

Ok, can you please tell me what specific part's you've used to make this possible?  Or, if you'd like, please assume which parts you'd use (applications please), and any evidence you have that they would work together as Bosch intended?  As I'm aware, Bosch spent considerable time matching CIS components to specific applications...you're assumption is that they can be pieced together to work properly, I'm not so sure.

I don't mean to sound crabby, but I've been hearing for years how you can just use this Mercedes injector and this Porsche air flow plate and create some realy monster CIS cars...I just have never seen it happen, I worked in the high end VW/Audi racing aftermarket for 5 years, we used to play with all kinds of CIS parts, I even developed my own EFI system because I had to give up on CIS.  Your guesses and assumptions are not convincing me any further.

Best,
Javad

In a message dated Wed, 8 May 2002  2:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, J123fs at aol.com writes:

>I actually did, if you noticed, my last statement was listing some of the shortcomings;..."along with the stock intake"...but I digress...
>In clarification, I completely disagree with you there, as the potential flow of the type 44 airplate is well over 1200 cfm's of air without much probs (without severe turbulance)
>You really neglected some basic rules of flow; as you could easly flow massive amounts of air with just higher velocty, the issue is: can you supply the correct proportion of fuel for it.
>I race Vw's, and know plenty of tuners (techtonics, older Drake, ect, to name a few, that have built stock based HIGH HP systems) that have built STOCK cis sytems that can easliy make 180hp with 1.8 4 clyn. motors.
>Thats with the same basic system made to develop 78 hp stock!
>I would venture an educated guess that a Audi CIS system has the same amount of "tunabilty", and would  I agree with others that other similar CIS sytems make in excess of 300bhp.
>I KNOW stock audi systems are almost identical (I'm A former VW/Porshe/Audi mechanic). The only real differeces are the amount of inputs that control the sytem, but they all REALLY do the same thing; they ALL have the same basic components, pumps, fuel dist, ect, some just have more control of ignition timing, injector pulse (Motronic), ect...In reality, any Audi/Bosch sytem COULD be made to work the same way, and I would assume that anyone capable of building a motor that "might" make 300bhp more than likely has the skills to make a stock based injection sytem work corectly...it really would not be a tough job with the right "off the Shelf" parts...and they (the parts)are out there.
>Regards
>John
>