Toluene is it really safe?

Thu Apr 3 23:26:21 EST 2003

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So...uhh...how many big-uns do I get if I pour it in da tank again??

Javad

In a message dated 4/3/2003 8:23:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
robert at s-cars.org writes:

> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> At 02:54 AM 4/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >Organic Chem 320...
>
> Yeah - I taught that course for 30+ years.
>
> >OK, Toluene is a 6 carbon ring compound with a methyl
> >group attached, (CH4).
>
> -CH3 group.
>
>
> >That is, it is Benzene (a 6 Carbon-atom ring) with a CH4 group attached to
> >one of the ring Carbons. These are referred to as Ring Hydrocarbons.
>
> Aromatic hydrocarbons.  There are many hydrocarbons which are ring
> compounds which are not aromatic.  Benzene and toluene are aromatic.
>
>
> >Benzene and Toluene are both very flammable, though not as flammable as
> >heptane, Octane or Isooctane (gasoline).  These are referred to as
> straight
> >chain hydrocarbons.
>
> n-heptane is a straight chain hydrocarbon.  Isooctane
> (2,2,4-trimethylpentane) is a branched chain hydrocarbon.
>
> A fuel which performs exactly the same as isooctane will have a 100 octane
> rating.  A fuel which behaves exactly the same as n-heptane will have a
> zero octane rating.  A fuel which behaves exactly as a 90% isooctane/10%
> n-heptane has a 90 octane rating.  That does no mean that this fuel is 10%
> n-heptane and 90% isooctane.  It just means that this
> particular complex mixture behaves as if it were that 90/10 mixture.  There
> are other fuels which form free radicals even more easily than isooctane
> and therefore these fuels have higher octane ratings than 100% isooctane or
> a rating higher than 100.  Toluene is such a fuel.
>
> >The ring hydorcarbons have a lower vapor pressure than
> >gas, therefore are used to slow down the burn rate of the gasoline when
> the
> >fuel/air mix is under boost thus reducing the chance of pinging, knocking,
> >or detantion.
>
> Try this for size: the -CH3 group on the toluene molecule forms free
> radicals (involved in combustion) much more easily than any of the C-H
> bonds of n-heptane and therefore is resistant to detonation (pinging of
> knocking) and thus has a higher octane rating than most other hydrocarbons.
>
> >I do not know for a fact that Toluene has a slower burn rate than pump
> gas,
> >though I strongly believe that is the case, yeah its been decades since I
> >did chemistry--my major.  Certainly, if it has a faster burn rate or is
> more
> >volitle than gas, then it would not be good to use as an octane number
> >booster, as it would then reduce the effective octane number of the fuel
> >mix, and nobody would be recommeding it.
> >
> >Higher octane # rated gasoline is slower burning.
>
> It forms free radicals more easily and therefore the combustion process
> occurs more easily and rather gradually as compared to something which does
> not form free radicals as easily and therefore tends to "go all at once".
>
> >94 is slower buning than
> >92 etc, and 100 octane, which is pure iso-octane gas, burns slower yet.
> >Anyone remember AvaGas?  Yes, 115/145 octane rating, that stuff didn't
> ping.
> >The higher the octane # the slower the burn rate, and the more boost you
> can
> >push before pinging/denonation.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Phil
> >
> >'90 Audi 200 Quattro Avant.
> >1.9 Bar, burning 93 octane (M+R octane number rating)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "R Mangas" <porter_dog at hotmail.com>
> >>To: ron_01056 at yahoo.com, quattro at audifans.com
> >>Subject: Re: Toluene is it really safe?
> >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:09:08 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Very popular in the 944T and turbo Miata circles.  No joke.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Ron Wainwright <ron_01056 at yahoo.com>
> >>>To: quattro at audifans.com
> >>>Subject: Toluene is it really safe?
> >>>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:12:49 -0800 (PST)
> >>>
> >>>  Listers,
> >>>
> >>>  I just for shits and giggles went to the local
> >>>Sherwin Williams paint store and found a can of
> >>>Toluene,
> >>>I asked what it was used for and the guy saied that
> >>>they sell it as a paint thinner.
> >>> Anyway's I bought a can only $6.00 what I want to
> >>>know is is this going to affect the coating in the gas
> >>>tanks of the type 44 cars?
> >>> I looked at the web site that Jan? mentioned
> >>>(http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html) and
> >>>from all accounts it seems safe this isn't an April
> >>>fools joke is it?
> >>> I'd like to hear from Mark or anyone who's tried it
> >>>or going to try it.
> >>> If it's safe I will try it.
> >>>Thanks
> >>>Ron
> >>>87 5ksq many mods
> >>>90 200tqa many mods
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
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> >>>Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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> >>
> >>
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> Bob
> *****
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