Toluene is it really safe?

Fri Apr 4 16:51:53 EST 2003

Hello Bob,

>From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
>To: "Phil Haag" <philhaag at hotmail.com>,
>porter_dog at hotmail.com,ron_01056 at yahoo.com, quattro at audifans.com
>Subject: Re: Toluene is it really safe?
>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:13:56 -0500
>
>--
>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>At 02:54 AM 4/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >Organic Chem 320...
>
>Yeah - I taught that course for 30+ years.

Gee, you are glutton for punshiment, my sympathy... Really though, I enjoyed
Organic, over 35 years ago.  You have to know that I would have been a
prized student.
>
> >OK, Toluene is a 6 carbon ring compound with a methyl
> >group attached, (CH4).
>
>-CH3 group.
>
>
> >That is, it is Benzene (a 6 Carbon-atom ring) with a CH4 group attached
>to
> >one of the ring Carbons. These are referred to as Ring Hydrocarbons.
>
>Aromatic hydrocarbons.  There are many hydrocarbons which are ring
>compounds which are not aromatic.  Benzene and toluene are aromatic.

Yes, a special class of ring compounds.  Aromatic is discriptive for the
nose, but not for the eyes.  Ring helps the non chemist visualize the
structure, and that is a very important property of aromatics.
>
>
> >Benzene and Toluene are both very flammable, though not as flammable as
> >heptane, Octane or Isooctane (gasoline).  These are referred to as
>straight
> >chain hydrocarbons.
>
>n-heptane is a straight chain hydrocarbon.  Isooctane
>(2,2,4-trimethylpentane) is a branched chain hydrocarbon.

Yes, of course but closer to a straight than a ring.
Non-chemists..remember..
>
>A fuel which performs exactly the same as isooctane will have a 100 octane
>rating.  A fuel which behaves exactly the same as n-heptane will have a
>zero octane rating.  A fuel which behaves exactly as a 90% isooctane/10%
>n-heptane has a 90 octane rating.  That does no mean that this fuel is 10%
>n-heptane and 90% isooctane.  It just means that this
>particular complex mixture behaves as if it were that 90/10 mixture.  There
>are other fuels which form free radicals even more easily than isooctane
>and therefore these fuels have higher octane ratings than 100% isooctane or
>a rating higher than 100.  Toluene is such a fuel.
>
> >The ring hydorcarbons have a lower vapor pressure than
> >gas, therefore are used to slow down the burn rate of the gasoline when
>the
> >fuel/air mix is under boost thus reducing the chance of pinging,
>knocking,
> >or detantion.
>
>Try this for size: the -CH3 group on the toluene molecule forms free
>radicals (involved in combustion) much more easily than any of the C-H
>bonds of n-heptane and therefore is resistant to detonation (pinging of
>knocking) and thus has a higher octane rating than most other hydrocarbons.

Cool...Thanks...  My memory of Toluene comes from the lab... I was
sulfanating Toluene, and had this boiling mix of Toluene and concentrated
Sulfuric Acid boil over and spue all over my lab book, etc.  Ruined a pair
of jeans, nice acid holes in everything.  Yeah, the boiling stones were
stuck together.
>
> >I do not know for a fact that Toluene has a slower burn rate than pump
>gas,
> >though I strongly believe that is the case, yeah its been decades since I
> >did chemistry--my major.  Certainly, if it has a faster burn rate or is
>more
> >volitle than gas, then it would not be good to use as an octane number
> >booster, as it would then reduce the effective octane number of the fuel
> >mix, and nobody would be recommeding it.
> >
> >Higher octane # rated gasoline is slower burning.
>
>It forms free radicals more easily and therefore the combustion process
>occurs more easily and rather gradually as compared to something which does
>not form free radicals as easily and therefore tends to "go all at once".

Thanks Bob, for refreshing my chemistry.
PS: Just viewed the Toluene page link below... a good read.
>
> >Regards,
> >Phil
> >
> >'90 Audi 200 Quattro Avant.
> >1.9 Bar, burning 93 octane (M+R octane number rating)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "R Mangas" <porter_dog at hotmail.com>
> >>To: ron_01056 at yahoo.com, quattro at audifans.com
> >>Subject: Re: Toluene is it really safe?
> >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:09:08 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   Very popular in the 944T and turbo Miata circles.  No joke.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Ron Wainwright <ron_01056 at yahoo.com>
> >>>To: quattro at audifans.com
> >>>Subject: Toluene is it really safe?
> >>>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:12:49 -0800 (PST)
> >>>
> >>>   Listers,
> >>>
> >>>   I just for shits and giggles went to the local
> >>>Sherwin Williams paint store and found a can of
> >>>Toluene,
> >>>I asked what it was used for and the guy saied that
> >>>they sell it as a paint thinner.
> >>>  Anyway's I bought a can only $6.00 what I want to
> >>>know is is this going to affect the coating in the gas
> >>>tanks of the type 44 cars?
> >>>  I looked at the web site that Jan? mentioned
> >>>(http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html) and
> >>>from all accounts it seems safe this isn't an April
> >>>fools joke is it?
> >>>  I'd like to hear from Mark or anyone who's tried it
> >>>or going to try it.
> >>>  If it's safe I will try it.
> >>>Thanks
> >>>Ron
> >>>87 5ksq many mods
> >>>90 200tqa many mods
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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>____
>
>I've been wondering...  Who would Jesus bomb?
>
>Bob
>*****
>   Robert L. Myers  304-574-2372
>   Rt. 4, Box 57,  Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA  WV tag Q SHIP
>   '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen   ICQ 22170244
>   http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
>*****
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>

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