Mobil DTE-13M

[Mike Arman]

A
>
>Can't happen, local Flaps doesn't sell DTE, only from lubrication
>distributors, in 5 gallon pails.  I think it's used as a power winch pump
>fluid for commercial fishing vessels, among other things.
>


Discount Auto Parts, right down the street from me, sells DTE "equivalent"
in a 5 gallon pail. They know what it is (or they think they do), and have
no compunctions whatsoever about selling it to all comers.


>> Now we are *two* steps removed from what should be in the car, and
>> things are going to get spooky. Suppose the "equivalent replacement"
>does
>> attack the rack seals or the booster diaphragm?
>
>A lubrication engineer on this very list once tested the seals etc.
>They're rated for 30W motor oil.  Unless you're putting battery acid or
>brake fluid in there, I don't know of any commercial hydraulic fluids
>that would be allowed on the market that attack SAE rated seals the way
>you've described.  I've come across a few (more than a few to be honest)
>type 44's that had been running ATF for years sometimes, and the systems
>still functioned normally.



I'd just LOVE to be able to run garden variety ATF in my leaky hydraulic
system - but I'm not willing to risk the car on seal compatibility.

I do know from personal experience that if you rebuild a clutch master
cylinder in a 5K and use DOT3 fluid, the rebuild will last about ten
minutes (BTDT), whereas it works correctly on DOT4 once you redo it (BTDT
too). Not all seals are compatible with all fluids, and here's a case where
brake fluid isn't the same as brake fluid.





>
>>And the car is involved in  an accident because the brakes were not
>working correctly? And some
>> sharp lawyer who knows something about Audi discovers you were running
>the
>> wrong hydraulic fluid and makes a case that the accident is therefore
>YOUR
>> fault . . . negligence . . . $$$$$$$$$$ . . . . and worse, if someone
>is
>> hurt or killed as a result of this . . .
>
>What if a genetically altered 600lb chicken were to fall out of the sky
>onto your car because genetically altered chickens are attracted to
>Audi's with Pearl paint?  Ambulance chaser would still descend on it like
>buzzards to the carcass....
>
>"What if" scenarios can get pretty far out there.  Nobody should work on
>their own cars either, I mean, change brake pads...what if they fail,
>what if you do something wrong, what if, what if, what if you couldn't
>brake in time for that 600lb chicken because you were distracted by the
>starch the laundry put in your shorts, would the laundry be party to the
>lawsuit after the lab that altered the chicken and you?
>


Please remember, my wife is a lawyer, and you'd be AMAZED at the crap that
comes out in a law suit, and the kind of "inconsequential" garbage that can
make or break a case.

"And the car you were driving was an Audi, correct?"

"Yes"

"And it has a hydraulic brake booster in it, right"

"Yes"

"And do you know what kind of fluid goes into it?"

And he's gotcha - a "no" means ignorance, and a yes will be followed by
"and did you use the correct fluid?"

(Sound of defendant being screwed)

I don't buy the 600 lb chicken theory - I've seen too much "legal"
craziness - nowadays you have to guard against even the APPEARANCE of
impropriety, not just the fact.





>Reality check please.  If you cut all the lines in the hydraulic system,
>you'd still be able to brake and steer, albeit without the assistance, I
>ferried a 5KS with no pump for 150 miles to get it home, systems are
>designed to work in the event you lose assistance.  You make it sound
>like you're just along for the ride if anything fails, there'd be quite a
>few less listers still breathing if this were the case....
>



Yes, you can do this . . . and I've (legally) flown airplanes that were not
airworthy using a ferry permit - but the difference is we KNOW something
isn't right and compensate accordingly. I didn't do any aerobatics, and I'm
sure you didn't try to set any speed records in the pump-less Audi.

The problem arises when people misunderstand that substitute fluids MAY NOT
have the same characteristics as the correct stuff, and don't realize
they'll have to make allowances for it.

"Well they said on the Audi list that this works as well as the right stuff
. . . now my car is crashed!"

Yes, you can drive the car with no hydraulic assist, but oh, boy is there
ever a difference once the bomb is working properly again! Unfortunately,
if all you've driven is a car with a dead bomb (as I did for a few months
after I got my first 5K) and don't know any better (as I didn't at the
time), you don't realize how poor the un-boosted brakes really are. Yeah,
superficially they FEEL all right, but it takes quite a push to get them
working, and in an emergency, you really DO need the boost.

Best,

Mike



>
>BCNU,
>http://www.geocities.com/cobramsri/