CIS3, Javad's opinion...

[ed armstrong]

Javad,

Thanks for this very informative post. I guess I have
some more inputs to check.....like you said I've only
scratched the surface, but there is so much surface to
scratch. Sometimes its overwhelming !

How much is stage II 034 again ?? Just kidding. If my
significant other ever caught me with that I'd be
finished for sure......


--- JShadzi at aol.com wrote:
> See inserted...
>
> > > The E3 module probably just does things all
> wrong at
> > > some points on the
> > > curve(s) for a turbocharged engine.
>
> Yes, but you need to qualify this, without the CIS
> potentiometer, the CIS3 ignition module is virtually
> unuseable unless this all important load input is
> addressed and restored.  Once this is done the
> internal ignition maps can be "easily" manipulated.
>
> Before we get too deep here, let me just say that
> I've toyed and experimented with the CIS3 ecu for
> hundreds of hours, only thing I haven't done is to
> reprogram the eprom inside it.
>
> > > >>One other thing. I still notice the timing is
> > > >>bouncing
> > > >>around somewhat. I set it to 0 BTC and it
> stays
> > > >>there
> > > >>a while but then advances to 15 BTC (this is
> the
> > > >>reason it failed smog the first time I
> believe).
> > > >>Lately it has been doing less of this, maybe
> the
> > > >>ignition computer is learning ??
>
> Ed, if your static timing and tuning is set
> correctly, and your pot. output is consistent, then
> there is no reason for CIS3 to wander the timing, it
> will only do in resonse to what the inputs tell it,
> which are only throttle switches, temp sensor,
> potentiometer, knock sensor and hall output -  all
> in the context of the manually set static timing.
>
> IME, a standard 80 turbo conversion keeping the
> stock ignition system can run about 6-8 degrees of
> static advance running premium fuel and no more than
> 12psi boost.
>
> > > I don't think that unit is capable of learning.
>
> That is correct, but it can do 2 things however,
> based on knock and temp.  The ECU has within it 2
> ignition maps, one for premium fuel and one for
> standard fuel.  Everytime you start the car it
> defaults to the prem. fuel map (based on the temp
> sensor input and ignition restart).  If the knock
> sensor registers what it considers to be excessive
> knock (or repeated retard adjustments within a
> certain amount of time), it will kick back to the
> regular fuel map which is more retarded.
>
> What could likely be happening in your case is the
> switch over between the two, and thus the retard
> you're observing.
>
> >  It
> > > does, however, run a
> > > lot more advanced off idle than you set it, for
> what
> > > I have observed -
> > > set it at, say, 15 DBTDC, and crack the throttle
> a
> > > tiny bit (ie, open
> > > the idle switch) and it jumps to something like
> 45
> > > degrees BTDC.
> > > probably just what the NF/NG wants, but maybe
> qwuite
> > > wrong for a turbo
> > > engine.
>
> This is correct, but pretty much any motor loves a
> lot of timing advance right off idle (or even at
> idle for that matter), under cruising and light load
> (according to the pot. output), timing can be
> advanced anywhere up to 50 degrees.
>
> > > > You asked what you could do next?  New engine
> > > > management my friend, you will not regret it.
>
> Well, yes, this is always an option, but Ed, you've
> hardly scratched the surface of what you can do, but
> you're running the CIS too, which will limit you
> soon enough regardless of ignition.
>
> What I did with my 80tq...the secret to the CIS3 ecu
> is the pot. input, if you can manipulate this the
> you can control it.  The CIS3 ecu will determing
> advance based on a 0-5v load signal, if you can
> control this then you can effectively program the
> ecu to whatever advance you like.  I developed a
> series of electronics to give me control over this.
> First off, I regulated a 0-5v supply, this was input
> into a MAP sensor, and its output was modified by an
> ECU that we developed that would add or subtract
> voltage from the MAP output based on a rpm and MAP
> matrix.  There are several layers of adjustability:
> 0-5v at the regulator, 1, 2, or 3BAR calibrated
> outputs for the MAP (the stock 034efi ecu MAP gives
> a 2.65BAR output)sensor being used, and a + - 2v for
> the ecu.  This worked very well after a length of
> development, and I though about offering it as a
> compliment to the 034efi products, but alas
> developing the StageII ECU to do distributor or
> direct fire ignition was the overall goal from the
> beginning, and is SOOO easy to install and tune
> with, so out the door CIS3 went.
>
> > >  From what Marc tells me, the "next generation"
> of
> > > 034 will include a
> > > tweakable (?) ignition controller, and a driver
> for
> > > some inexpensive GM
> > > idle stabiliser valve.  Nice touches both of
> them, I
> > > think.
>
> Yes, this is correct, just finished testing it on my
> car, I'm very excited.  Currenlty my 034efi Stage II
> ECU controls all fueling, ignition, tach, fuel pump,
> and idle stabilization in 80tq, in fact there is no
> factory system controlling anything related to
> engine function or measurement... but more about
> that later in a future post.
>
> Javad


=====
-ed

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