the 80Q track Q's (redux)

[Iain Mannix]

On Thu, 8 May 2003, Tessie McMillan wrote:

> On Thu, 8 May 2003, Iain Mannix wrote:
>
> -- snip --
>
> > I guess my real question is simple:
> >
> > What's the point of this car?  Is it a competitive car, or is
> > it a recreational track-day car which you're trying to make
> > more enjoyable to drive?
> >
> Thanks Iain! Recreational lapping, (with 1 TT a year). I'm not a
> horsepower freak; I prefer low-HP cars. But the corners are the most fun,

Yup.  I agree on low power/corners being the fun part(I can't
afford enough power to make straights interesting;).


> and when the car is drilling for oil so much in the corners and chewing up
> tires, isn't it time to do something?  I've done nothing to the front
> except a strut-tower brace (not so sure that's doing anything, either),

The strut-tower brace will help keep things square, but it won't
affect roll at all.  I once took my front strut bar off (DSP VW
Rabbit) for fun runs at an autocross - got within a few tenths
of my best in competition, then put it back on for the last fun
run - was .4ish better than my competition best.

So, it seems like it was doing _something_, but not a whole lot.
Worth it's weight?  Sure.  Could I feel a difference?  Not really.



> and in the rear I have a Blau anti-sway bar. No offense to anyone, but
> front roll hasn't changed a whole lot with the rear bar.

A rear bar won't really affect front roll.  A little, but not
a whole lot.


Now under hard
> cornering I get the front digging for clams AND one of the rear wheels
> will come up in the air. The rear AR didn't change much, except make the
> car look sporty.

IMHO, put a BIG front bar on the car.  MacPherson strut cars are
kinda hamstringed out of the box - they lose camber under compression,
assuming the control arm goes beyond parallel with the ground,
and while a big front bar is counterintuitive, it has been my
experience that MacPherson cars like a big front bar - keeps the
tire flatter.  On our SP cars(autocross cars, but they worked
great on the track, too), we ran 22-25mm front bars, no rear
bars, fairly stiff springs.  On my current autocross/street
car, an 84 GTI(my wife does not like driving the 5kcsq around
town, it showed up cheap, bought it, etc), I've got Koni
Yellows, Kumho V700s and a 1" front bar that bolts on near
the front control arm bolts(a little different setup than a 4k) -
the lever arm is about half of what the stock location needs.  It
is _stiff_, the car does not roll much at all, etc.  Still drives
like a stock car, which is nice.



>
> If coilover springs aren't much different than lowering springs, then
> can you affect change using different shocks/struts?

Shocks are great tuning tools.  They won't reduce absolute body
roll, but they'll slow down how quickly it happens.

I like Koni "Yellows," the single adjustable "sport" shock for a
comparatively cheap option - to get much better, IMHO, you need
to spend $$$$ on revalved stuff.

Springs are springs are springs - but lowering springs tend
to be progressive - initially soft, ramping up through their
travel.  I had some Neuspeed "Race" springs (race my ass),
on a spring tester, they measured about 100# at the same
length that they were while on the car/on the ground.  They
got to just about 300# near the end of their travel.

No wonder they let the car lean a lot and rode like crap
over big bumps:).

If you ask me, the Falken is a -great- cheap tire.  Downside,
they supposedly get greasy when hot.  Oh well.  Yoko A032Rs
are long lasting enough to run on the street, if you ask
me.  If it is a choice between a cheap but decent street tire
and something like the Pilot$, I'd buy Yokos or something,
have better performance, replace as needed.  Dunno.  Tires
are always a compromise, but in the long run, race tires
on separate wheels with solid street tires (solid=decent),
that's the way to go.

OTOH, 1tt a year, ehhh, who cares:).  Lack of grip is lack of
grip, it just happens at different times.  I'd put a big front
bar on the car, Konis, go have a ball.


Do more events, too:).




Iain