end of my rope

Wed Apr 7 11:32:08 EDT 2004

Used a DMM to check all ground points in the engine compartment.  The
valve cover ground was suspect and redone but no improvement.  The block
is well grounded. but didn't check for voltage in the engine
compartment.  Any tips on where to check?

The splice is a possibility, will have to check.  If it is, at least I
have experience fixing it like I did in the donor car. (slight :))

Ok, the alternator is the original.  I will swap in the alt from the
donor car and see what happens.  The voltage regulator is on the
alternator, right?

Having spent 4 days, 4 full days, working on this system, I actually
have a pretty good understanding of how it works.

Someone please clarify if this thought is correct...

On the system I am working on, type 44 - 86-88 5000 turbo, the engine
management system basically 'self-tunes' for best running, right?  You
set the ignition dist in the 'window' where it will run and the ecu
takes over and fine tunes to spark at the right point, right?  Air/fuel
mixture is totally controlled by the ecu for optimal running, right?
This all assumes that the engine is installed correctly and all systems
in good working order.

Thanks

Stephane

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doyt W. Echelberger [mailto:Doyt at buckeye-express.com] 
> Sent: April 7, 2004 1:29 AM
> To: Livolsi, Stephane
> Subject: Re: end of my rope
> 
> 
> Just a few items to think about that I didn't see mentioned 
> in your post: 
> Look over the ground points in the wiring harness, as 
> described in the 2d 
> volume of Bentley, items 97.8 J through T.
> 
> Also, I didn't notice any mention of checking for adequate voltage at 
> various points in the engine compartment. You may have a touch of the 
> infamous splice corrosion in the positive cable that runs from the 
> underseat battery forward through the passenger side footwell 
> and into the 
> engine compartment, or some variant of that problem in other 
> branches of 
> the wiring harness.
> 
> The grounds are so critical. On my 87 5ktq, I ran a #10 
> ground wire from 
> the underseat battery negative post all the way forward and 
> into the engine 
> compartment, where I ended it on a head bolt. This was 
> probably overkill.
> 
> Certainly you have also shorted out the fuse on the fuel pump 
> relay and 
> watched the check engine light for error codes. But I didn't 
> notice mention 
> of that in your post.
> 
> And I didn't see any reference to checking the proper function of the 
> voltage stabilizer.
> 
> 
> I can see why you are at the end of your rope. It is a very 
> sophisticated 
> and complex system. Good hunting.
> 
> Doyt Echelberger
> 
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> At 01:25 AM 4/7/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >This is more a lament than anything.  Just throwing all the info out 
> >there, hoping something will stick. Tell you what, if 
> someone comes up 
> >with something I haven't tried yet and it solves the 
> problem, there'll 
> >be a few bucks in it for them.
> >
> >Patient is an 88 5ktqa - beautiful tornado red, cosmetically 
> very nice 
> >and has been running well since I bought it in Aug 2003.
> >
> >A couple weeks ago I started having a 'missing' problem.  Idle was a 
> >bit rough, but the miss was most pronounced under heavy load - for 
> >example, 2nd gear, 2500 rpm and accelerating hard.  Also, boost and 
> >power are way down.  When accelerating, the car would accelerate but 
> >not as rapidly as it should, and would periodically surge 
> ahead, then 
> >cut back.  The surging ahead seemed more frequent as I let up on the 
> >throttle.  To rephrase, the car would run better as I 
> reduced throttle. 
> >The car was definitely running rich. spark plugs, exhaust, o2 sensor 
> >all black.  This rich running seems to be fixed, but still have this 
> >missing and cutting out under power.
> >
> >I have an 86 5ktq sedan which is not so nice cosmetically, but ran 
> >really, really well.  I've had it for about 6 years and 
> stayed on top 
> >of maintenance and repairs.  The car ran flawlessly.  It has 
> served as 
> >a donor over the weekend.
> >
> >Here's what we did:
> >
> >Swapped over all coolant sensors and the idle/wot switch and isv. 
> >Swapped the o2 sensor. Swapped over the spark plugs, coil, 
> distributor, 
> >plug wires. swapped over any suspect vac lines - checked all, and I 
> >mean ALL connections and lines.
> >Swapped over the fuel distributor, lines, injectors, 
> including the warm
> >up regulator.
> >Put in a new fuel filter and air filter.
> >Checked the fuel delivery and it DELIVERS...  1/2 liter in about 10
> >seconds.
> >used the DMM and checked air temp sensor, continuity of the 
> temp sensor
> >to ecu, coil specs, grounds.....all check out ok.
> >The cat is not plugged - trust me, it is NOT plugged.
> >Swapped the ECU from the donor into the good car, then went 
> back to the
> >original ecu because it didn't make any difference.
> >(86 donor car has a mac 10, the 88 car has a mac 11c)
> >
> >Swapped over the radiator but that was because we broke the 
> neck on the 
> >old rad.
> >
> >I wrote the above on Sunday night.  Monday morning taking 
> the kids to 
> >school I get a few hundred meters from the house and Knock, Knock, 
> >Knock.  Oh Oh!  This is bad.  Serious knocking in the 
> engine, changes 
> >directly with rpms.  Rod? Bearing?  Regardless of what it 
> is, it's time 
> >for a transplant.  Fortunately I have a very nice MC engine 
> sitting in 
> >the 86 5ktq.
> >
> >Monday I do the transplant, get the donor engine in and took the 
> >opportunity to install the new engine mounts and valve cover gasket 
> >that have been sitting in my basement for a while.  Tuesday, hook 
> >everything up, check, double check, triple check 
> connections. Fire it 
> >up and at first it ran quite poorly with a steady miss.  This really 
> >annoyed me.  Everything in that engine bay came out of the 
> 86 parts car 
> >which ran like a top! We managed to get a good idle after 
> swapping the 
> >under dash Idle Volume Control.  Thanks to SJM's site where 
> he has part 
> >numbers for different cars, we found the one in the car was 
> incorrect, 
> >but the donor car had the right one.
> >
> >Also, we found that there is a silver metal box in the driver's dash 
> >(screwed to the inside of the lower dash) that has a blue and white 
> >wire cut.  It almost looks like someone did it on purpose, but they 
> >sure left the wires frayed.  putting the 2 ends of the wire together 
> >doesn't seem to improve anything.  Anyone know what this box is and 
> >could it be related to the hesitation under acceleration I am 
> >experiencing?
> >
> >So now we have a nice smooth idle, occassional burbling, no black 
> >exhaust. The problem is still the acceleration and boost.  When I 
> >accelerate it sounds like an air cooled VW, and has the power of one 
> >too.  I just don't get it.  What have we missed?  What was 
> left in the 
> >car that could affect acceleration?
> >
> >Ecu wiring?
> >Wastegate frequency valve (this is on the firewall by the coil, 
> >right?)? Oh, I also noticed a purple wire running under the 
> passenger 
> >side carpeting going towards the rear of the car.  The other end is 
> >unattached in the area of the ecu.  Can't see where it would 
> connect to 
> >though.  It definitely does not look like it was factory 
> installed so I 
> >don't think it is a likely suspect.
> >
> >Like I said before, cash for innovative ideas that can cure 
> this.  You 
> >won't retire on it, but I'll make it worth your while.
> >
> >Stephane
> >_______________________________________________
> >quattro mailing list
> >quattro at audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________________
> >This message was scanned by GatewayDefender
> >2:25:46 AM ET - 4/7/2004
> 
> 
> 