More UPDATES - Help! Possible fuel pump woes...'87 5KCSQT

Tue Aug 24 03:18:11 EDT 2004

Hello,

I have rechecked the overall status of the relay by inserting a piece of 
wire.  I was able to get positive readings using a multimeter.  Now, I may 
have done this incorrectly as well.  What I did was to insert a piece of 
thin, stiff, wire into the terminal or two wires when two terminals were 
being tested, turn ignition on, and touch my multimeter to the wires.

Results:
- Got a continuity measurement when checking terminals 46 & ground
- No results when cranking engine and measuring terminals 50 & 51
- Got a continuity measurement when checking terminals 46 & 50
- Got a continuity measurement when checking terminals 46 & 52

I have since received a couple emails informing me that I was incorrectly 
jumping the fuel pump relay.  Much thanks for the additional tips!  These 
have caused me to think of a few additional questions.

- Is my process above valid or not?
- Does the 'jumper' need to be one piece of wire that connects from one 
socket to another or can I use two wires like I did above?  The Bentley 
shows two separate probes going into one test light.
- Why does the Bentley show what looks like a fuse being inserted (or is it 
being removed) into the top of the fuel pump relay?  If what I did was 
incorrect, was is this step for?
- If I get continuity readings at 3 of the 4 test locations for the relay, 
is it likely that my relay is bad or good?
- I only got a voltage reading at the fuel pump connector harness when I 
inserted a fuse into the top of the relay.  Is there another method that I 
should use to test for voltage?  If this next method gives voltage at the 
fuel pump but no fuel still still gets to the inbound side of the fuel 
filter and the engine still doesn't start, am I looking at a bad relay or 
pump?
- What does a fuel pump relay typically cost?

Sorry for all the questions but I have to ask especially since I am not sure 
that I am even performing the jumping process correctly.  I suspect that the 
relay is MUCH less than a fuel pump so I don't want to throw $$$ at a fix 
that won't correct the problem.

Thanks in advance, especially to Huw, Robert, and Kent who have been so kind 
to answer my previous questions.

--David Balbirona
Lake Stevens, WA

>From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
>To: "David Balbirona" <dbalbirona at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: UPDATES -  Help! Possible fuel pump woes...'87 5KCSQT
>Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:37:19 -0400
>
>
>The jumper is not placed across the "fuse holder" in the top of the relay.  
>Pull the relay and insert a jumper wire between the load connectors of the 
>relay socket.
>
>
>At 11:04 PM 8/23/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>Hey all,
>>
>>Updates:
>>
>>Inserting a jumper (read 30amp fuse) into the fuel pump relay allows me to 
>>read battery level voltage (>12.5V) at the fuel pump harness connector.
>>
>>- There is still no noise at the fuel pump.  Previously when the car was 
>>running normally, I could hear the pump running over the engine noise at 
>>20 feet.  Per the Bentley, I should still pull the pump and check 
>>continuity at the pump itself.  Wouldn't this be redundant as no voltage 
>>is getting to the pump?
>>
>>- It seems like the remaining test (fuel delivery rate) has no real 
>>purpose here since there is no voltage to the fuel pump itself.
>>
>>- Is there another way to check the integrity of the relay without using a 
>>test light?  Still need to pick one of these up today.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for any additional insights.
>>
>>--David Balbirona
>>Lake Stevens, WA
>>
>>
>>>From: "David Balbirona" <dbalbirona at hotmail.com>
>>>To: quattro at audifans.com
>>>CC: dbalbirona at hotmail.com
>>>Subject: Help! Possible fuel pump woes...'87 5KCSQT
>>>Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:00:02 +0000
>>>
>>>Hey everyone,
>>>
>>>This is somewhat long in the description but covers all the investigative 
>>>work thus far.
>>>
>>>I currently have a car in a no start scenario after a sputter at 50 mph 
>>>and roll to a stop today (Sunday afternoon, 8/22) about 3 miles from 
>>>home.
>>>Verified the following in the parking lot and later again at home after a 
>>>tow from a friend:
>>>
>>>- charged battery
>>>- spark at the plugs & coil
>>>- engine cranks over easily
>>>- 1/4-ish tank of gas
>>>- no gas coming out of the out-bound side of the fuel filter
>>>- no gas going to the inbound side of the filter
>>>- fuel pump no longer making obnoxious buzzing noise when engine was 
>>>running briefly after stall
>>>- no fuel pump noise at all even when key & ignition is turned on as if 
>>>starting car
>>>- fuse #13 OK
>>>- unable to get any voltage reading at fuel pump sending unit harness 
>>>connector on terminals 1 & 4 (green & brown wires)
>>>
>>>The Bentley says to check the relay.  What's the deal with the space for 
>>>a fuse on top of this relay?  What goes here?  I haven't seen anything in 
>>>this spot before.
>>>
>>>I don't have the remote control VW 1348/3A.  Is this necessary?  Can it 
>>>be by-passed somehow with an equivalent test?
>>>
>>>I do get a light on my test light with terminal 46 and ground (had to 
>>>jury-rig this by inserting a thin safety pin and touching the test light 
>>>to it).
>>>
>>>No definitive answer of flickering light with my jury-rigged test light 
>>>on terminals 50 & 51 or 46 & 52.
>>>
>>>Supposedly a lack of positive test light indicates a wiring problem.  The 
>>>lack of light _may_ be due to my lame test light.  Maybe not...   If it 
>>>*IS* wiring, where are the likely suspects?  Where can I get a better 
>>>test light as shown in the Bentley?  Do I really need that remote VW 
>>>tool?
>>>Anyone know the rough cost of the fuel pump relay?  Is this likely just a 
>>>dead fuel pump and I just need to yank the old one out and replace it?  
>>>If so, any gotchas?
>>>
>>>Last weird thing - after the first stall I was able to get car started 
>>>momentarily (ran smooth for about 45 seconds)  after it sat for a few 
>>>hours and drove like a demon to get a *BIT* closer to home.  The car 
>>>stalled once again and that's when the tow home started.  Started one 
>>>last time and the car ran VERY rough for about 15 seconds and hasn't 
>>>started since.
>>>Currently charging battery from the drain of all the starting.
>>>
>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>--David Balbirona
>>>Lake Stevens, WA
>>
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