Timing belt align to rotor problem.

[Denis]

  I just changed the timing belt.

  From Bentley book, when all marks (flywheel 0 and cam sprocket to gasket cover) the rotor must indicate the first cylnder or in another words it indicate the opposite of the distr connector. 
  Mine indicate the distr connector.

  The disrt is clamped and never been unclamped.
  I have couple of those distr. and all are the same.
  Everything on the car was there when i bought it.
  Crank pulley and cam sprocket have them key to prevent turning on the shaft. So that way nothing can twist.

  So what s wrong ?

  Ðenis
  My engine is not special!!! it must be something wrong somewhere!!
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: SJ 
    To: Denis 
    Cc: quattro at audifans.com 
    Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:25 AM
    Subject: Re: timing marks made the engine knocking



    You have something screwey going on.

    With timing marks all properly aligned, take a look at the distributor.
    The rotor must be aligned with the notch in the edge of the distributor
    body. (On theBentley book that position is the cylinder 1, mine is 5 !!)
    Now position the distributor cap on the distributor body. The rotor should
    be lined up with the contact for #1 spark plug.(I unplugged all of them and plugged the cyl 1 to the rotor first position and so on for the others.I tried to start and it was weird)
    The plug wire from this contact should go to #1 plug.
    Who the hell knows, maybe you have the wrong cap or something. Or the cap
    has been mounted backwards or something.(My spare cap is identical)

    When you change the valve timing, you are also changing the distributor
    timing.(Sure)
    Moving the camshaft also moves the distributor shaft. The two are linked
    together by gears.(yes)
    The piston is at top dead center, but the plug wont fire because the
    distributor rotor has turned and the rotor aint pointing at the #1 contact
    anymore.(Yes, it ll fire couple degres before the TDC)

    If you are going to fart around with the valve timing, then you need to keep
    the spark timing correct by turning the distributor so the rotor lines up
    with the distributor body notch. To do this, you need to grind off that
    rivet on the distributor lock down clamp.

    How it possible the rotor got 180 turned if it still clamp there by Audi ?

    SJ

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Denis" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
    To: "SJ" <syljay at optonline.net>; <quattro at audifans.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:50 PM
    Subject: Re: timing marks made the engine knocking


      Timing belt adjustment:

      I followed the Bentley procedure and from others guys here.
      Order of work:
      1. Align crank timing marks in back of engine, at 0, same as front crank
    pulley.
      2. check and align camshaft sprocket; mark to the upper edge of the head
    gasket
      3. check and align distributor; !!!


      Mark aligned to the mark, the engine wont start.
      2 teeth from the mark on the head, the engine is shaking. Almost as a
    dragster, too much advance.
      3 teeth from the mark on the head, the engine is oscillating.(fuel problem
    to be solved)

      When i take the timing light to the first cyl , the cam sprocket mark
    indicate 180 degres to the head cover.
      The crank indicate about 15 degres back to the mark on the damper puller
    cover.

      The engine is oscillate from 1000 to 1200RPM.
      With this more agressive timing the fuel problems are more apparent. The
    oscilationsof the engine is more agressive....

      Must solved the timing first.

      I took the compression when engine was warming up, not cold.
      all 210psi.
      Ðenis
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: SJ
        To: Denis
        Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:28 PM
        Subject: Re: timing marks made the engine knocking




          Well, its getting complicated.
          Finally i started the car with all marks aligned.
          It does not start.
          It knocked for the first try last time, but now after couple engine
    spin
        it was ok. Donno what was the knock sound.

          I must backup 3 or 4 teeth before it runs.

          When all marks are aligned does the rotor of the ignition is at 1st
        cylinder ?
        **** Yes, with all marks aligned. the dist rotor points to the "NOTCH"
    on
        the dist housing. (The rotor indicate the distr connector, not the first
    cyl. at all)

          Maybe with the wrong timing the distr cap was 180 degres out of range
    ? (it never been unsrewed, the bolt is covered)

          Where is loacated the two longer tits on the distr cap ? i just saw
    it, after i posted.
        **** Cap only goes on one way.

          thanks again.

          Ðenis
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: SJ
            To: Denis
            Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:49 PM
            Subject: Re: timing marks made the engine knocking



            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: "Denis" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
            To: "SJ" <syljay at optonline.net>; <quattro at audifans.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:28 PM
            Subject: timing marks made the engine knocking


              I just tried to put all mark on the pix.
              I cant get to the cam mark. It goes lower than the lower edge of
    the
        head
            gasket or higher than the edge of the gasket witch is exactly at the
        mark on
            the metal sheet in front of the engine.
            **** Here is another way to check for crankshaft TDC.
            take out #1 plug
            rotate crank with wrench and socket until you feel compression in #1
        piston
            (use your finger)
            insert a straight wire or long pencil . .anything . .into spark plug
        hole
            and bottom it out on the piston top
            now turn crank back and forth while looking at the wire until you
    have
        no
            more movement . .this should be TDC .
            Check the timing mark on the flywheel . . .it should be aligned to
    the
        "0"

              I made couple turn to check if anything is touching. Was ok, the
        valves
            dont touched pistons.
            *****Your engine is non-interference . .piston will never touch the
        valves.

              I crancked the engine, but i did only one try, just to try if
    anything
        is
            still ok.
              And the engine did not like it, it knock alot on the first
    turn......
        too
            much advance and seems valves touched pistons a little.

              So i ll put back at the mark that was before.

              engine:     2.3 NA
              car:         100Q 1989
              injection:    CSI-3
              Ðenis