Brakes G60's vs UFO's and other combos............

[SuffolkD at aol.com]

Paul and Bill:

Bill upgraded his pads and rotors in his post...........I'm talking OEM parts 
as they came from the factory.

Respectfully,  I had a 1990 10V avant and those brakes went soft at WG.  
Granted that's a street car on a track, but either way they and the Mrs.'s 99 
Avant suck in the braking department.  Even the dealer redid her A6 brakes / bled 
them and the result is still high pedal effort to get the thing to slow down.  
EVEN the 10V was better (vs. A6). .... But not as good as the 20V's w/UFO's.
The A6 is SOOO much of a disappointment that I asked on the quattro list two 
years ago about it when she got the car. "Audi assured." heh
Maybe I drive too fast?
Without a lot of technical test data, (but I have driven them all mentioned 
above for a minimum of two years) I see that the UFO's are on the heavier 
vehicles. V8's and 20V's from the factory.  MUST be a reason.  G60's on a 20V are a 
retrofit or warranty fix by Audi.

Bill said: "I don't race, but I have done some "testing", nailing the brakes 
at 100mph or so, and the car hunkers right down, ABS buzzing away." * 
---Most brake set ups for me, need to have that test done over and over, back 
to back, repeatedly.  That's the best way to determine the system resistance 
to brake fade.  Except for going down the Mt Washington Auto Road or another 
tight steep hill at low speeds (~40mph so the brakes suffer from lack of ram 
air cooling, repeatedly using the brakes), a stab at 100 isn't going to generate 
enough heat for me to figure when the brakes WILL fade when the car is full 
of luggage and four other people on a downhill grade 40,000 miles from now.  
AFAIK: Based on this example the larger rotor surface and cooling area on the 
UFO, IMHO is better suited to handle (dissipate) this heat which will boil the 
brake fluid and fade them.  From this and from experience driving both, I can 
go longer using the brakes on a UFO car then on G60's
(another related theory here:)
 *  from above: "ABS buzzing away".......... I'm no brake engineer, but I 
theorize that if I compare two like kind setups braking with the ABS working and 
then not engaging the ABS by modulating the brakes at threshold, I'll bet the 
ABS will have a longer stopping distance leading to less heat generated on the 
brake rotor and its components.

That being said, I'd bet that the engaged ABS braking technique would allow 
for a longer use before brake fade, due to the ABS system pumping the brakes, 
hence (albeit brief) a constant temp or cooling between each pad to rotor 
squeeze from the brakes MC and ABS system.

Its the only reason why I see a correlation between ABS having a longer 
stopping distance than threshold braking. (granted threshold being done well and 
consistently)  

A shorter stopping distance means more heat into the brakes and its 
components. 

The brakes convert car velocity movement into kinetic heat into the rotor 
during stopping.  The result is, you have generated more brake heat in a shorter 
braking distance.

So I further say, you'd get more resistance to fading when engaging the ABS 
over and over vs. threshold braking over and over.  In tracking these cars 
(1990 10V avant and 1991 200 20V sedan, for a comparison) both trying to maximize 
threshold braking while out on the same track, I felt the G60's fade first and 
earlier.

So in conclusion:  Without track pads or upgraded rotors on any car I've 
driven AND tracked.............. I'll go for the UFO's......my personal preference 
(given the choices) and without knowing the answer I'll assume the 1999 A6 
Avant brakes are similar to G60's.........or I've been horribly duped by spongy 
G60's AND an A6 making me think the 20V UFO's are superior. 

If your happy with yours that's cool.  Its your car.  I'm just chiming in 
about what I've heard and what I think I know. G60's are fine on the street for 
me, but I'd rather..........

I'm open to thoughts and others' findings as well.
now when it comes to CBR pads & rotors.......................I'll ask Paul.
-Scott by BOSTON

In a message dated 2/16/2004 6:09:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
200q20v-request at audifans.com writes:

>     I concur.  I see these posts all the time about how the G60's are not 
> adequate
> for this car, but I have them, and have no complaints.  I don't race, but I 
> have
> done some "testing", nailing the brakes at 100mph or so, and the car hunkers
>