MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?

[Aaron Gibson]

Hey,

I think Javad is very right on this subject. A friend tried the same 
combination and he never seem to get it right (motronic in 10V). Why 
re-invent the wheel? Why use the factory system when the
parts are expensive? With 034 you can use pretty much any TPS,. 4kq 
water temp sensor $14,
95 VW Golf intake MAT sensor $18, Bosch 3 wire sensor $29, 4KQ Dist (034 
IIb system)free,etc,etc,etc. Unless you feel like buying $200 Mass 
Airflow sensors. In the long run
it will be cheaper and easier. What happens if you have an ECU 
problem...goodluck$$$$$$.
Unless your getting sponsored by Band-Aid?

AG

Ben Swann wrote:

>Javad,
>
>I do expect to have to do some datalogging and tweaking of the maps if I use Motronic.  I also understand that the system is rather adaptive at least at lower power levels.  My initial thrust will be getting an engine that works fine under 300HP using among other things a complete Motronic system I picked up rather economically.  
>
>Once I get the engine working at lower HP, I do have some resources available to help me develop appropriate chip for the specific engine characteristics.  At that point I will indeed need to come up with more optimal maps and probably larger injectors for start.  I feel this is better than starting with the CIS setup I was going to use.  I also think that if Motronic doesn't cut it in the end due to  its complexity and that the code is somewhat proprietary and difficult to crack, I can use what I have as a good base to control with a variation on Megasquirt or other system available - perhaps even yours.
>
>Ben
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: JShadzi at aol.com 
>  To: benswann at comcast.net ; jeg1976 at yahoo.com ; quattro at audifans.com 
>  Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:04 PM
>  Subject: Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
>
>
>  Ben, the 3B Motronic system, like any other factory management system, is developed for an _engine system_, in this case the 3B 20v I5 with given turbo, sensors/inputs, airflow input (including intercooler, manifold, piping, exh. manifold), etc.
>
>  The 3B Motronic works wonderfully in the stock application, obviously, but in the 10v you can definitely feel that the programming is slightly off.  Once you start changing turbos, intercoolers, this and that, and really start pushing the boost and power, the Motrinic system does not like it.  Throwing "chips" at it doesn't help the situation, and by the time you realize this, who knows how much money you'll have thrown at it.
>
>  About 5 years ago, during much of the development of the 034efi system, I worked on 2 projects to put the 3B Motronic system on the 10v, this was my experience, and further confirmed the need for the Stage II systems I have available now.  The harder you push the motor, the more trouble you'll have with it.
>
>  You may or may not see my opinion/experience in a "sincere light", but that's the best advice I can give you.  I'd like to hear anyone else's experience with installing the 3B Motronic system in a modified 10vt, for the varied feedback.
>
>  Ben, my question to you is, what makes you think it _will_ work?
>
>  Javad
>
>  In a message dated 2/23/2004 3:10:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, benswann at comcast.net writes:
>    Javad,
>
>    Why do you say not Motronic in a 10V?
>
>    Ben
>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>    From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
>    To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>; """Jim Green""" <jeg1976 at yahoo.com>;
>    <quattro at audifans.com>
>    Cc: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
>    Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:42 PM
>    Subject: Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
>
>
>    > Ben, just to be real clear on this issue (cause its close to my heart),
>    *and I'm not saying you implied this*, but... I don't tune for big dyno #'s,
>    big dyno #'s are the result of a powerful, well tuned car.  Any advice you
>    get from me will be in the context of reliable, smooth, everyday power, and
>    as much of it as you like (ie: the intended application or result of the
>    project).
>    >
>    > I commuted 60 miles a day in my 80tq for 3 years, 400hp and all, and got
>    near 30mpg, never left me stranted once.
>    >
>    > Again, not saying you accused me of tuning for "sloppy power", but making
>    a 400hp 10v run smooth everyday isn't too difficult with the right
>    management system (ie: not 3B Motronic, in a 10v anyway) and some attention
>    to detail.
>    >
>    > With that said, it doesn't sound like you're shooting for the moon wrt
>    power, so I'd recommend the MC2 for you, because it will perform better in
>    the range of power/use you're looking for.  A pinging motor is "sloppy" to
>    me, so if you wanted to run 20+psi boost, then the MC2 may become more and
>    more "sloppy", esp. w/o the right octange fuel or engine management system.
>    >
>    > And, IME, water injection will only take you so far, there is nothing like
>    the proper octane fuel for the application.
>    >
>    > 3B - 9.3:1
>    > MC2 - 8.4:1
>    >
>    > Javad
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>  
>