car shopping

Wed Jun 16 20:18:39 EDT 2004

Which camp are you in?
I said the I5 is the better choice.

Power was not listed as criteria, because buyer currently has a turbo
I5.
Put him in a stock V6 and it will become an issue.

You will eventually experience failure with driveshaft center bearings,
u-joints, differentials and CV joints; as opposed to the driver of a 2WD
Audi.  
On the other hand, 156K with no failure is a testament to the Quattro
system.

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of Ed Kellock
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:08 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com; v8 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: RE: car shopping

Power was not listed as a criteria.
A 5ktq in good tune can get 30mpg highway, try that in a v6 Avant.  
I did not dispute the listed concerns of quattro except to say that I
haven't experienced any quattro related failurs in cars with up to 156k
miles on them.

Some non-quattro vehicles, maybe just the type 44's do not have
independent rear suspension.

============================================================
From: "P.Dooley" <pdooley at gte.net>
Date: 2004/06/16 Wed PM 06:00:15 MDT
To: <ekellock at adelphia.net>, 
	<quattro at audifans.com>, 
	<v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: RE: car shopping

I know many people on this list covet the Quattro system, if they need
it or not.  But, remaining purely objective, the Quattro system
provides:
1) Extra mechanical parts that will eventually fail.
2) Extra weight, both sprung and unsprung(bad).
3) Increased fuel consumption from turning extra parts.

However negligible or transparent these concerns are, they are
undisputable.

As I had said before, where you will be driving is a factor.  If you
drive in areas where you need 4WD, any disadvantages to Quattro are
negligible.

I am not so sure the V6 maintenance would be lower, timing belt changes
are more costly, oil leaks are common, and forget trying to get any
power from them without emptying the bank account.

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of Ed Kellock
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:41 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com; v8 at audifans.com
Subject: RE: car shopping

I'm a little confused by the comments regarding quattro being extra
complexity and expense.  It has been my experience that quattro is
essentially transparent, even regarding maintenance.  Ok, there's an
extra diff and in the case of the 5k, there are the vacuum operated
controls to lock the diffs, but even if those fail, the car is still
completely driveable and the rear diff is essentially non-existent when
it comes to maintenance excepting fluid maintenance once in a blue moon.
In some models quattro also offers 4 wheel independent suspension with
the associated add'l bushings, etc.  But still, I don't see that
maintenance of the quattro system should be a deciding factor.  The real
issue regarding quattro is the driving conditions that may be expected
and what advantages quattro would offer over fwd and if those are
desirable.  If so, then any concern over add'l complexity and expense
should be mostly moot.

The 5k would likely be the most costly in the long term in regard to
maintenance with the sole exception being the failure of the automatic
in the '94.  

If the decision must not be made in the short term, then I might suggest
waiting to find an '89 or '90 quattro wagon.  Also, you could locate a
'92 or later quattro Avant.

I don't really see the V8 as a player given the basic motivation for the
decision.

Just thinking out loud...

============================================================
From: "P.Dooley" <pdooley at gte.net>
Date: 2004/06/16 Wed PM 05:08:19 MDT
To: "'Kent McLean'" <kentmclean at mindspring.com>, 
	<quattro at audifans.com>,  <v8 at audifans.com>
Subject: RE: car shopping

The V8 is out of the question since it's no bigger than what you have
with worse gas mileage and higher maintenance costs.

It is between the wagons.  The question is, where will you be driving?
The auto would be nice if you will be in rush hour, stop and go traffic.
The Q would be good for northern snowy climates.
The auto would most likely fail before the manual, but the Quattro does
add complication and expense.

I would probably go with the older car because the I5 is a better motor
IMO.

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of Kent McLean
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:34 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com; v8 at audifans.com
Subject: car shopping

Gentlepeople,

I'm taking a job as a traveling sales person. My '89 200,
with 237K miles on her, isn't big enough to hold all the
samples, so I need a wagon.  Since it's a commission-only
job, and I won't see a paycheck for 3 months, I'm bottom
feeding. I was shopping for a mid-90s Passat wagon, but
here's what I found:

1 - 1994 Audi 100 Avant, V6, auto, FWD, 138K miles, needs minor
work. Will probably trade for my Miata for it. Good: newer Audi,
clean.  Bad: FWD. Questionable: the automatic.

2 - 1987 Audi 5K Avant. Quattro, 5-speed, MC-1. 128K miles.
Good: Dirt cheap. Fairly low miles. I keep my 200 as a parts
car (the Eur lights fit). Bad: Older than my '89, mechanical
condition unknown.

3 - The dark horse: 1992 Audi V8, Pearl and black. 173K miles.
Needs some work. Good: it's my lust car. Bad: not a wagon, high
miles, and poor gas mileage.

I'm leaning towards the '94 100 as it's newer and without
the complication of quattro. The 5K avant would work, and
if it broke, I could walk away from it.  The V8 is a crazy
idea that I could be talked in to.

So, start talking.  Should I go for the "reliability" of
the '94 100?  Take a chance on an old 5K Avant?  Or be
stupid and pop for the V8, space-for-samples be damned?
I'm looking for opinions as to "what would you do" given
a) the need for a reliable vehicle, b) that can put a lot
of miles on it, c) with gas at $2.50/gallon, and d) the
need for samples space.

Kent
'89 200 TQ, "Bad Puppy"
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