Cloning Keys
Matt Evans
matt at mattevans.org
Fri Mar 5 01:20:30 EST 2004
Actually if you look at the Ross Tech site it talks about programming VAG
keys with the various immobilizer systems.
Essentially you need to "bind" each key to the ECU. The VAG-COM can even do
this; but the trick is that you need a code which takes as its inputs the
dealer ID and the date of the request, and a programming sequence is
returned and entered into the VAG-COM (or VAG 1551 or whatever the factory
tool is). Once the ECU is in "program mode" you tell it how many keys
you're going to program, and then consecutively put them in the ignition
cylinder. Each key is programmed to be recognized by the ECU.
Getting the reprogramming code is an inside job. This person worked for a
dealer or had access to someone that did.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of
> quattro-request at audifans.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:37 PM
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: quattro Digest, Vol 5, Issue 17
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. License plate Front mounting Audi 200 (FFGREG32 at aol.com)
> 2. Re: Windshield replacement. (tihol tiholov)
> 3. Re: Next planned mod: new aux. gauges, but need some advice
> (Huw Powell)
> 4. Re: Windshield replacement. (Huw Powell)
> 5. RE: V8 flywheel for 700$ :-( (P.Dooley)
> 6. Re: License plate Front mounting Audi 200 (Kent McLean)
> 7. How did someone get a key to our car?!?! (Scott Sutherland)
> 8. Re: Re: Next planned mod: new aux. gauges, but need some
> advice (David)
> 9. Audi sends an engineer ................ (Frederick Smith)
> 10. Re: How did someone get a key to our car?!?! (Brett Dikeman)
> 11. RE: [s-cars] Windshield replacement. (TM)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:02:14 EST
> From: FFGREG32 at aol.com
> Subject: License plate Front mounting Audi 200
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <130.2bf9c3b8.2d792b96 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi, I just purchased a 1989 200 TQ. I live in a state (WI)
> where it is
> mandatory to mount the front license plate. I just got
> stopped by the local
> Gendarmes so I was wondering what is the best solution for
> mounting the front plate. I
> do not want to drill holes in the face of the bumper. What is
> available to
> solve this problem? Thanks, Greg
> 1989 200TQ
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:03:35 -0800
> From: "tihol tiholov" <tihol.tiholov at sd27.bc.ca>
> Subject: Re: Windshield replacement.
> To: <quattro at audifans.com>
> Message-ID: <s0476174.013 at gwia.sd27.bc.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> >My inclination at this moment is to accept only glass with the four
> ring logo on it. *Are there other acceptable substitutes?
>
> Speaking of substitute: a Crystal glass place in Edmonton, Alberta
> quoted $213 CAN for a "generic" windshield for Typ 89.
> That's less than
> half of previous quotes. I'm happy because I'm paying for it
> myself (no
> glass insurance) but wonder how good/strong these are. Anyone BTDT?
> And thanks for the tips during the first couple of days.
>
> TT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:06:04 -0500
> From: Huw Powell <audi at humanspeakers.com>
> Subject: Re: Next planned mod: new aux. gauges, but need some advice
> To: David <duandcc_forums at cox.net>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <4047D27C.9090007 at humanspeakers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
> > OK, got it. Can use T-fitting on pressure sensor, not on
> temp sensor.
> >
> correct.
>
> > OK, so how would you go about installing a second temp sensor?
>
> I wouldn't, actually...
>
> > Drill & tap the oil pan?
>
> That could work. Might actually be the simplest and easiest
> way to go.
> Although, I think you would want to pull the pan and weld a small
> backing plate behind your hole, to allow for some threads to
> grab hold of.
>
> I do prefer the stock location, since it is always bathed in
> oil. You'd
> have to put the new sender in a very vulnerable place to make sure it
> was below the oil level in the pan.
>
> There are probably also places in the block or head where you could
> drill and tap into an oilway - although I think that would be crazy
> (since it ain't broke...).
>
> Other alternatives - the oil cooler brackets on some cars, or
> the simple
> oil filter bracket (on the later 2.3's, not sure if your 87.5 has it)
> might provide a low-impact way to access some flowing oil for your
> sender to read.
>
> > Or, since I would be eliminating the stock oil temp gauge, is there
> > any need for the stock sensor?
>
> No need if you use something else.
>
> > Like, does it do anything other than provide for the display?
>
> No.
>
> The cars without an oil temp gauge use the same oil pump and have a
> dummy plug/bolt sort of thing in its place, it might be 069
> 115 431 B,
> the the FA is not very clear in the pic I looked up. It
> takes the place
> of the way the stock sender holds the spring and relief valve in the
> pump. Probably does not make it easy to put another sender
> there, but
> at least it's less likely to leak than the sender.
>
> > If not, would you suggest just removing the stock sensor and
> > installing the aftermarket one in it's place?
>
> That would be very awkward physically.
>
> --
> Huw Powell
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>
> http://www.humanthoughts.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:08:23 -0500
> From: Huw Powell <audi at humanspeakers.com>
> Subject: Re: Windshield replacement.
> To: tihol tiholov <tihol.tiholov at sd27.bc.ca>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <4047D307.5000900 at humanspeakers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
> > Speaking of substitute: a Crystal glass place in Edmonton, Alberta
> > quoted $213 CAN for a "generic" windshield for Typ 89.
> That's less than
> > half of previous quotes. I'm happy because I'm paying for
> it myself (no
> > glass insurance) but wonder how good/strong these are. Anyone BTDT?
> > And thanks for the tips during the first couple of days.
>
> Brett's post covered a couple of things, here is one I have heard.
> Don't shut the doors with the windows closed (pressurizes the
> glue as it
> is drying). In fact, I'd be inclined to park the car indoors with a
> decent fresh air supply, windows wide open, for 2-3 days to let
> everything dry and set well.
>
> --
> Huw Powell
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>
> http://www.humanthoughts.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:20:23 -0500
> From: "P.Dooley" <pdooley at gte.net>
> Subject: RE: V8 flywheel for 700$ :-(
> To: <QuickAudi at aol.com>, <quattro at audifans.com>
> Message-ID: <002001c40250$0995fbc0$0214f343 at patco>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Yeah, I could buy'em at a yard sale for $10 if the seller didn't know
> any better.
> Was talking about dealer list, like $700 for the flywheel.
>
>
> Not even close!! If I hadn't deleted the quote, I'd have
> shown you that
> you could get wires (someone on the list sent me the link) for under
> $250; 700.00 CAD
> = 523.133 USD according to my calculations. I think you can get
> custom wires for like $300.
>
>
> Joel
> '90 V8q
> '86 5kcstq
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/4/2004 1:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> quattro-request at audifans.com writes:
>
> > Hey, that is cheaper than a set of sparkplug wires!
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:36:45 -0500
> From: Kent McLean <kentmclean at mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: License plate Front mounting Audi 200
> To: FFGREG32 at aol.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <4047F5CD.9050309 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> FFGREG32 at aol.com wrote:
> > I live in a state (WI) where it is
> > mandatory to mount the front license plate. ...
> > What is available to solve this problem?
>
> A couple of zip ties securing it to the under-bumper
> grille have kept my plate on for a few years now.
> Easy and cheap. Just like me.
>
> Kent
> '89 200 TQ, "Bad Puppy"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:30:28 -0800
> From: Scott Sutherland <scott at scottsutherland.com>
> Subject: How did someone get a key to our car?!?!
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <a06020431bc6daf11c17d@[24.18.180.173]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> My wife's 2001 Audi A4 Quatro was stolen about a month ago, and it
> was just recovered. Surprisingly, guy the police arrested in the
> car actually had a key! It wasn't one of ours -- we still have the
> three originals. This was a straight key (not one that flips out
> from a key fob). It has a metal blank and a square-ish plastic head
> that has an imprint of something that looks like a wrench, just below
> the Audi logo. On one side of the blank it has "AKS", and on the
> other there's a small "w" near the head and "NAA" near the top of the
> groove. It appears to be a valet key, since it won't open the trunk.
> We're in Seattle, Washington, USA, if it matters.
>
> Does anyone know what kind of key this is or how the thief might have
> obtained it? We're pretty upset that a car that was supposed to be
> so tough to steal was so easy, and any help/insight will be much
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:33:47 -0500
> From: David <duandcc_forums at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: Next planned mod: new aux. gauges, but need some
> advice
> To: audi at humanspeakers.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID:
>
> <20040305043346.QOCC24099.lakemtao05.cox.net at smtp.central.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Somebody else suggested using 2 Ts. Put a T in both of the
> places that have stock oil pressure sensors (idle and higher
> RPM). Then put 1 stock pressure switch and one aftermarket
> sensor on each T. Basically T1 would have the idle pressure
> switch plus the aftermarket oil pressure gauge sensor and T2
> would have the other stock pressure sensor and the
> aftermarket oil temp gauge sensor. Then leave the stock oil
> temp sensor where it is and just don't use it. Thoughts on this idea?
>
> Dave
> 87.5 CGT
> SE Virginia
> ============================================================
> From: Huw Powell <audi at humanspeakers.com>
> Date: 2004/03/04 Thu PM 08:06:04 EST
> To: David <duandcc_forums at cox.net>
> CC: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: Next planned mod: new aux. gauges, but need some advice
>
>
> > OK, got it. Can use T-fitting on pressure sensor, not on
> temp sensor.
> >
> correct.
>
> > OK, so how would you go about installing a second temp sensor?
>
> I wouldn't, actually...
>
> > Drill & tap the oil pan?
>
> That could work. Might actually be the simplest and easiest
> way to go.
> Although, I think you would want to pull the pan and weld a small
> backing plate behind your hole, to allow for some threads to
> grab hold of.
>
> I do prefer the stock location, since it is always bathed in
> oil. You'd
> have to put the new sender in a very vulnerable place to make sure it
> was below the oil level in the pan.
>
> There are probably also places in the block or head where you could
> drill and tap into an oilway - although I think that would be crazy
> (since it ain't broke...).
>
> Other alternatives - the oil cooler brackets on some cars, or
> the simple
> oil filter bracket (on the later 2.3's, not sure if your 87.5 has it)
> might provide a low-impact way to access some flowing oil for your
> sender to read.
>
> > Or, since I would be eliminating the stock oil temp gauge, is there
> > any need for the stock sensor?
>
> No need if you use something else.
>
> > Like, does it do anything other than provide for the display?
>
> No.
>
> The cars without an oil temp gauge use the same oil pump and have a
> dummy plug/bolt sort of thing in its place, it might be 069
> 115 431 B,
> the the FA is not very clear in the pic I looked up. It
> takes the place
> of the way the stock sender holds the spring and relief valve in the
> pump. Probably does not make it easy to put another sender
> there, but
> at least it's less likely to leak than the sender.
>
> > If not, would you suggest just removing the stock sensor and
> > installing the aftermarket one in it's place?
>
> That would be very awkward physically.
>
> --
> Huw Powell
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>
> http://www.humanthoughts.org/
> ============================================================
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:47:42 -0500
> From: Frederick Smith <smitty at pcrealm.net>
> Subject: Audi sends an engineer ................
> To: Quattro List <quattro at audifans.com>, urq at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <4048066E.1070104 at pcrealm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> from the R8 team to Skoda for increased factory involvement
> in the WRC.
>
> http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/rally/9934/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:03:37 -0500
> From: Brett Dikeman <brett at cloud9.net>
> Subject: Re: How did someone get a key to our car?!?!
> To: Scott Sutherland <scott at scottsutherland.com>,
> quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <a05200f00bc6db71afc9b@[192.168.1.2]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> At 8:30 PM -0800 3/4/04, Scott Sutherland wrote:
> >My wife's 2001 Audi A4 Quatro was stolen about a month ago, and it
> >was just recovered. Surprisingly, guy the police arrested in the
> >car actually had a key! It wasn't one of ours -- we still have the
> >three originals. This was a straight key (not one that flips out
> >from a key fob). It has a metal blank and a square-ish plastic head
> >that has an imprint of something that looks like a wrench, just
> >below the Audi logo. On one side of the blank it has "AKS", and on
> >the other there's a small "w" near the head and "NAA" near the top
> >of the groove. It appears to be a valet key, since it won't open
> >the trunk. We're in Seattle, Washington, USA, if it matters.
> >
> >Does anyone know what kind of key this is or how the thief might
> >have obtained it? We're pretty upset that a car that was supposed
> >to be so tough to steal was so easy, and any help/insight will be
> >much appreciated.
>
> Who knows- some people are masters at what's called social
> engineering. Ie, you find an internal number for a company, and call
> up pretending to be someone in said company. You'd be amazed at how
> often someone gets away with it.
>
> It is impressive, as I'm pretty sure immobilizer keys have been on
> Audis for a number of years and these aren't terribly easy to bypass.
> Usually you have to have one of the already-recognized keys to
> program in a new one, although APR sells a "cloning" program- perhaps
> the thief got matched key+ECU from someone. Nothing would surprise
> me these days.
>
> The cops should be able to figure out pretty quickly how he got the
> key; may be he worked at the dealer or something. Out of curiosity,
> how was it recovered? Can't leave us hanging here :-)
>
> Brett
> --
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:36:44 -0500
> From: "TM" <t44tq at mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] Windshield replacement.
> To: "'Robert Myers'" <robert at s-cars.org>
> Cc: 'Quattro list' <quattro at audifans.com>, s-car-list at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <003101c40273$d8133ad0$0400a8c0 at TAKA1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Bob-
> I just had "Los" brand Finnish glass installed in my 200-
> cost about $320 with the antenna in the glass and that included
> the chrome trim strip that was a dealer-only Audi part.
>
> The install was fine, but I think I should have insisted upon
> PPG glass- this stuff is too soft- only a few days on the road and
> the glass already has stone chips.
>
> Taka
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>
>
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