Anybody tried this?

Eric S scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com
Wed Oct 13 18:26:41 EDT 2004 

YES David...many many offshoots of the Megasquirt system exist, (AVR being
one of the best) that could easily (very very easily) handle this.

8 psi, into a stock NG, with proper control over everything should safely
propel you to 200hp+ with MASSIVE gains in torque over hp.  And yes, a K04
would be MORE than enough turbo for such an application.

Might I suggest a good read? "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell.  Damn fine read.

Even CIS can handle moderate boost like 8 psi...poked around an older Audi
5000 turbo much?  Ever looked into the APC (bosch system) system used on
old SAABs?  A low tech, CIS based system to handle this could easily be
put together without the EFI as well.

Let me give you an example:  Audi 5000 Turbo WUR, Volvo Turbo Fuel Dist,
boost retard mechanical mechanism from old VW, is good enough to take a
10:1 110hp VW 4 cyl to 175hp on 6 psi with NO pinging or mal-behaviour.
Add a modern EFI into the mix and you just end up with the ability for
more power,  more boost, and better control.

-- 
Eric
www.vintagewatercooleds.com

1981 Scirocco S (TDI swap project)
1988 Audi 90 Quattro
1990 Corrado TDI
1991 Cabriolet (2.0 crossflow 8v project)

David said:
> But that would requuire a MUCH more sophisticated fueling system that the
> stock CIS-e III, correct? That was my point, no a good idea with the
> engine otherwise stock. I realize you can do a high CR engine with good
> engine management, but is there one good enough for out engines that
> cvould safely boost a NG with lets say 8PSI of boost and a nice little K04
> turbo? Wonder what kind of power that would make?
>
> Dave
> 1987 CGT 2.3 (NG)
> SE VA, USA
>>
>> From: "Eric S" <scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com>
>> Date: 2004/10/13 Wed PM 05:09:37 EDT
>> To: "David" <duandcc_forums at cox.net>
>> CC: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com>,  quattro at audifans.com
>> Subject: Re: Re: Anybody tried this?
>>
>>
>> Actually David,
>>
>> A modern, well controlled, low boost turbo on a high compression motor
>> is
>> quite fantastic.  With the advent of extremely advanced fuel injection
>> and
>> boost control devices, these high CR, low boost motors are quite the
>> amazing daily drivers (all the original power down low, with a nice kick
>> in the pants once the boost comes up).  Beauty of that design is, small
>> turbo = near zero lag.
>>
>> These setups are very very very popular with the Honda crowd...
>>
>> --
>> Eric
>> www.vintagewatercooleds.com
>>
>> 1981 Scirocco S (TDI swap project)
>> 1988 Audi 90 Quattro
>> 1990 Corrado TDI
>> 1991 Cabriolet (2.0 crossflow 8v project)
>>
>> David said:
>> > Being that the NG is a high compression engine (10:1), I would shy
>> away
>> > from a bolt on turbo. But if you were to first put on a 20V head, that
>> > would drop the CR to about 8.5:1 which would work pretty well for
>> forced
>> > induction...
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > 1987 CGT 2.3 (NG)
>> > SE Virginia, USA
>> >
>> >>
>> >> From: Ed Kellock <ekellock at gmail.com>
>> >> Date: 2004/10/13 Wed PM 03:28:41 EDT
>> >> To: quattro at audifans.com
>> >> Subject: Re: Anybody tried this?
>> >>
>> >> Actually, the engine in an '88 90q is the 2.3 liter NG engine which
>> >> runs newer version of CIS.  Not sure how much this would change the
>> >> equation but thought it might be relevant.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:35:04 -0700, Bernard Littau
>> >> <bernard.littau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Mitchell,
>> >> >
>> >> > I have not done this per se, but I've been involved with a few
>> >> > upgrades such as this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Your engine is an Audi 2.2 liter Inline 5.
>> >> >
>> >> > You will likely want to do an engine swap, but you'll keep your A/C
>> (I
>> >> > can see why you want the A/C in SC, I visit there from Seattle from
>> >> > time-to-time).
>> >> >
>> >> > The engine that gives you the most bang for the buck, and is a easy
>> >> > mechanical swap is the Audi MC engine code turbo I5.  It's from the
>> >> > 1986-1988 Audi 5000 turbo quattro.  It is mostly a direct
>> replacement
>> >> > for your current engine, with the turbo goodies, and some helpful
>> >> > internal improvements such as oil sprayers on the pistons to help
>> with
>> >> > cooling.
>> >> >
>> >> > There are people who have bolted on the turbo goodies to the
>> non-turbo
>> >> > engine, so that is an option, but the MC swap will likely be more
>> >> > durable.
>> >> >
>> >> > Now, in the old days, the hard part of such a swap was moving the
>> >> > engine management system.  That involved stripping the wiring
>> harness,
>> >> > ECU and various sensors out of the donor car, and cobbling it
>> together
>> >> > into the recipient.  It was a daunting task.  Today, however, you
>> >> > wouldn't want to do that.  Just replace the whole 1980 style fuel
>> >> > injection system with a modern kit fuel injection system.
>> >> >
>> >> > Depending on how technical you are, megasquirt is a very good
>> starting
>> >> > point.  You do it youself, but it has a lot of support for DIY
>> types.
>> >> > There are many MC engines converted to Megasquirt, so you can get
>> >> > advice and initial tuning maps from people.
>> >> >
>> >> > A more upscale unit would be Javad's EFI034; costs a bit more, is a
>> >> > bit better.  There are commercial ones that cost even more than
>> these
>> >> > two, but they are not as sorted out for the Audi application.  I'd
>> >> > stick with one of these.  I have a megasquirt, but not on my '88
>> 5ktq.
>> >> > I'm thinking of going EFI034 for my Audi.
>> >> >
>> >> > The modern EFI units avoid the need for much of the FI plumbing
>> from
>> >> > the original MC donor.  Between not needing the wiring and ECU and
>> not
>> >> > needing to fit the MC airbox and  other plumbing, its a huge win to
>> go
>> >> > with an EFI upgrade as well.  I don't think anyone would do a
>> >> > wiring/ECU swap today.
>> >> >
>> >> > Take a look at:
>> >> > http://www.80tq.com/
>> >> > http://www.034efi.com/
>> >> > http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW the stock MC engine has 162 HP.  A used one should cost around
>> >> > $500.  With EFI and perhaps a stiffer wastegate spring, you can
>> easily
>> >> > get to 250 HP.  With a better turbo ($1500 ) and a better
>> Intercooler
>> >> > (not sure of the $$$, but likely $1000 or so) you can get above 300
>> >> > HP.
>> >> >
>> >> > You'll be very sorry you asked this question and very sorry you
>> looked
>> >> > at those sites :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > Best,
>> >> >
>> >> > Bernard Littau
>> >> > Woodinville, WA
>> >> > '88 5ktq
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:01:12 -0500, Haskins Mitchell S TSgt 437
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > APS/TRP <mitchell.haskins at charleston.af.mil> wrote:
>> >> > > I recently came into a bit of money, and would like to add some
>> >> 'forced
>> >> > > induction' to my 1988 Audi 90 Quattro.  As I live in South
>> Carolina,
>> >> an
>> >> > > engine-swap is out of the question because I'd lose my A/C.  If
>> >> anybody
>> >> > > knows of a way to add a turbo (custom downpipe), or supercharger
>> >> without
>> >> > > removing my A/C, would you please share your story here with us?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Thanks in advance!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mitchell S. Haskins
>> >> > >
>> >> > > 1988 Audi 90 Quattro
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > quattro mailing list
>> >> > > quattro at audifans.com
>> >> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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