Anybody tried this?

Thu Oct 14 03:52:48 EDT 2004

Nope, had this discussion before....
Megasquirt'n'spark will definitely run on the audi I5
Definitely..........
But ill post to eric f to triple check...

Best Regards,
Alan Pritchard

Network Administrator
Mechanical Design Engineer
Seaeye Marine Ltd.
+44 (0)1329 289000

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Evans [mailto:matt at mattevans.org]
Sent: 14 October 2004 03:59
To: 'Eric S'; 'David'
Cc: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: RE: Re: Anybody tried this?

I want to believe you really badly, except nobody I've heard of is running a
megasquirt derivative to do spark on an Audi I5.

That is, all the I5 megasquirt installs I know of retain the factory ECU for
sparking, and piggy back it to do fueling.  Only the 034efi stage II and
higher (I think, that's just a dim memory of a website visit) do fuel and
spark together.  Nobody much cares about how to do spark on an I5 motor, it
seems.

Getting perfect control over spark is what's going to let you make safe big
power on a high compression blown motor, right ?  Megasquirt doesn't address
that at all.

I'd love to hear that I am wrong.  I would gut this car's FI/ecu and put in
something I could monitor/tune easily in a heartbeat.. Even running stock
power levels..

Matt
88 90Q NG motor.  (MC swap next summer?)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Eric S
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 5:27 PM
> To: David
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Anybody tried this?
>
>
> YES David...many many offshoots of the Megasquirt system
> exist, (AVR being
> one of the best) that could easily (very very easily) handle this.
>
> 8 psi, into a stock NG, with proper control over everything
> should safely
> propel you to 200hp+ with MASSIVE gains in torque over hp. 
> And yes, a K04
> would be MORE than enough turbo for such an application.
>
> Might I suggest a good read? "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. 
> Damn fine read.
>
> Even CIS can handle moderate boost like 8 psi...poked around
> an older Audi
> 5000 turbo much?  Ever looked into the APC (bosch system)
> system used on
> old SAABs?  A low tech, CIS based system to handle this could
> easily be
> put together without the EFI as well.
>
> Let me give you an example:  Audi 5000 Turbo WUR, Volvo Turbo
> Fuel Dist,
> boost retard mechanical mechanism from old VW, is good enough
> to take a
> 10:1 110hp VW 4 cyl to 175hp on 6 psi with NO pinging or
> mal-behaviour.
> Add a modern EFI into the mix and you just end up with the ability for
> more power,  more boost, and better control.
>
> --
> Eric
> www.vintagewatercooleds.com
>
> 1981 Scirocco S (TDI swap project)
> 1988 Audi 90 Quattro
> 1990 Corrado TDI
> 1991 Cabriolet (2.0 crossflow 8v project)
>
> David said:
> > But that would requuire a MUCH more sophisticated fueling
> system that the
> > stock CIS-e III, correct? That was my point, no a good idea with the
> > engine otherwise stock. I realize you can do a high CR
> engine with good
> > engine management, but is there one good enough for out engines that
> > cvould safely boost a NG with lets say 8PSI of boost and a
> nice little K04
> > turbo? Wonder what kind of power that would make?
> >
> > Dave
> > 1987 CGT 2.3 (NG)
> > SE VA, USA
> >>
> >> From: "Eric S" <scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com>
> >> Date: 2004/10/13 Wed PM 05:09:37 EDT
> >> To: "David" <duandcc_forums at cox.net>
> >> CC: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com>,  quattro at audifans.com
> >> Subject: Re: Re: Anybody tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> Actually David,
> >>
> >> A modern, well controlled, low boost turbo on a high
> compression motor
> >> is
> >> quite fantastic.  With the advent of extremely advanced
> fuel injection
> >> and
> >> boost control devices, these high CR, low boost motors are
> quite the
> >> amazing daily drivers (all the original power down low,
> with a nice kick
> >> in the pants once the boost comes up).  Beauty of that
> design is, small
> >> turbo = near zero lag.
> >>
> >> These setups are very very very popular with the Honda crowd...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Eric
> >> www.vintagewatercooleds.com
> >>
> >> 1981 Scirocco S (TDI swap project)
> >> 1988 Audi 90 Quattro
> >> 1990 Corrado TDI
> >> 1991 Cabriolet (2.0 crossflow 8v project)
> >>
> >> David said:
> >> > Being that the NG is a high compression engine (10:1), I
> would shy
> >> away
> >> > from a bolt on turbo. But if you were to first put on a
> 20V head, that
> >> > would drop the CR to about 8.5:1 which would work pretty well for
> >> forced
> >> > induction...
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> > 1987 CGT 2.3 (NG)
> >> > SE Virginia, USA
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> From: Ed Kellock <ekellock at gmail.com>
> >> >> Date: 2004/10/13 Wed PM 03:28:41 EDT
> >> >> To: quattro at audifans.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: Anybody tried this?
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, the engine in an '88 90q is the 2.3 liter NG
> engine which
> >> >> runs newer version of CIS.  Not sure how much this
> would change the
> >> >> equation but thought it might be relevant.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:35:04 -0700, Bernard Littau
> >> >> <bernard.littau at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Hi Mitchell,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have not done this per se, but I've been involved with a few
> >> >> > upgrades such as this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Your engine is an Audi 2.2 liter Inline 5.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You will likely want to do an engine swap, but you'll
> keep your A/C
> >> (I
> >> >> > can see why you want the A/C in SC, I visit there
> from Seattle from
> >> >> > time-to-time).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The engine that gives you the most bang for the buck,
> and is a easy
> >> >> > mechanical swap is the Audi MC engine code turbo I5. 
> It's from the
> >> >> > 1986-1988 Audi 5000 turbo quattro.  It is mostly a direct
> >> replacement
> >> >> > for your current engine, with the turbo goodies, and
> some helpful
> >> >> > internal improvements such as oil sprayers on the
> pistons to help
> >> with
> >> >> > cooling.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There are people who have bolted on the turbo goodies to the
> >> non-turbo
> >> >> > engine, so that is an option, but the MC swap will
> likely be more
> >> >> > durable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Now, in the old days, the hard part of such a swap
> was moving the
> >> >> > engine management system.  That involved stripping the wiring
> >> harness,
> >> >> > ECU and various sensors out of the donor car, and cobbling it
> >> together
> >> >> > into the recipient.  It was a daunting task.  Today,
> however, you
> >> >> > wouldn't want to do that.  Just replace the whole
> 1980 style fuel
> >> >> > injection system with a modern kit fuel injection system.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Depending on how technical you are, megasquirt is a very good
> >> starting
> >> >> > point.  You do it youself, but it has a lot of support for DIY
> >> types.
> >> >> > There are many MC engines converted to Megasquirt, so
> you can get
> >> >> > advice and initial tuning maps from people.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A more upscale unit would be Javad's EFI034; costs a
> bit more, is a
> >> >> > bit better.  There are commercial ones that cost even
> more than
> >> these
> >> >> > two, but they are not as sorted out for the Audi
> application.  I'd
> >> >> > stick with one of these.  I have a megasquirt, but
> not on my '88
> >> 5ktq.
> >> >> > I'm thinking of going EFI034 for my Audi.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The modern EFI units avoid the need for much of the
> FI plumbing
> >> from
> >> >> > the original MC donor.  Between not needing the
> wiring and ECU and
> >> not
> >> >> > needing to fit the MC airbox and  other plumbing, its
> a huge win to
> >> go
> >> >> > with an EFI upgrade as well.  I don't think anyone would do a
> >> >> > wiring/ECU swap today.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Take a look at:
> >> >> > http://www.80tq.com/
> >> >> > http://www.034efi.com/
> >> >> > http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> > BTW the stock MC engine has 162 HP.  A used one
> should cost around
> >> >> > $500.  With EFI and perhaps a stiffer wastegate
> spring, you can
> >> easily
> >> >> > get to 250 HP.  With a better turbo ($1500 ) and a better
> >> Intercooler
> >> >> > (not sure of the $$$, but likely $1000 or so) you can
> get above 300
> >> >> > HP.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You'll be very sorry you asked this question and very
> sorry you
> >> looked
> >> >> > at those sites :-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Bernard Littau
> >> >> > Woodinville, WA
> >> >> > '88 5ktq
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:01:12 -0500, Haskins Mitchell
> S TSgt 437
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > APS/TRP <mitchell.haskins at charleston.af.mil> wrote:
> >> >> > > I recently came into a bit of money, and would like
> to add some
> >> >> 'forced
> >> >> > > induction' to my 1988 Audi 90 Quattro.  As I live in South
> >> Carolina,
> >> >> an
> >> >> > > engine-swap is out of the question because I'd lose
> my A/C.  If
> >> >> anybody
> >> >> > > knows of a way to add a turbo (custom downpipe), or
> supercharger
> >> >> without
> >> >> > > removing my A/C, would you please share your story
> here with us?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Thanks in advance!
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Mitchell S. Haskins
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 1988 Audi 90 Quattro
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> >> > > quattro at audifans.com
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> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > quattro mailing list
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> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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