Methyl hydrate should have been methane hydrate

Sat Aug 6 18:16:43 EDT 2005

OK, Jim, I didn't respond earlier to avoid embarrassment.  Yes, methane 
hydrate appears to be plentiful and methane obtained from this source has 
potential for use as a fuel directly or as a precursor for numerous other 
organic molecules.  The supply, however plentiful it may appear, is not 
unlimited.  Nor is it necessarily easily regenerable.  To some extent it 
depends on what your (something) is.  It also depends upon just how 
economical it is to produce methane under the conditions under which the 
experiment was performed.

It is possible, through some nuclear processes, to convert a base metal 
into gold.  It sounds like a great way to get gold.  The problem is that 
the gold thus produced is far more costly than "natural" gold.  It may well 
turn out that methane hydrate is indeed regenerable starting with 
(something) but at what expense?

The (something) must, of necessity, contain carbon in some form and also, 
most likely, hydrogen.  There must be a mass balance.  What comes out must 
be balanced with what goes in.

As Isaac Asimov (or was it Ray Bradbury?) once said, "TANSTAAFL".  There 
ain't no such thing as a free lunch.  IOW, you don't get something for nothing.

Bob (retired professor of organic and biochemistry)

At 05:49 PM 8/6/2005, Jim Jordan wrote:

>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>Hi Doyt and Q Listers,
>
>Actually, you were right;  I used methyl when I meant to use methane
>hydrate.
>
>Methane hydrate might be our energy bridge to the future.  It can be used to
>power vehicles and to augment nuclear power for electric generation in the
>form of natural gas.
>
>Methane hydrate is a cage-like lattice of ice, inside of which are trapped
>molecules of methane (the chief constituent of natural gas).
>In fact, the name for its parent class of compounds, "clathrates," comes
>from the Latin word meaning "to enclose with bars."
>
>Worldwide, estimates of the natural gas potential of methane hydrates
>approach 400 million trillion(4E17) cubic feet -- a staggering figure
>compared to the 5,000 trillion(5E12) cubic feet that make up the world's
>currently known gas reserves.
>
>"Scientists" recently generated methane under pressures of about 10E5
>atmospheres, yes 100,000.  They compressed (something) between 2 diamond
>surfaces and created methane.  They performed the experiment because the
>earth's temperatures and pressures at, say 160 km deep, generate methane.
>Therefore, it is theoretically a renewable source.
>
>What really needs to happen is to get the auto manufacturers and energy
>companies behind a Manhattan project for energy.  The results to date prove
>that they are not serious about the situation and obviously don't want to
>abandon their tremendous investments in plant, equipment, and
>infrastructure.
>
>Methane hydrate can be processed into propane and there are plenty of ways
>to use it as a vehicle fuel.
>
>Sorry for the error.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Jim Jordan
>
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: Doyt W. Echelberger [mailto:doyt at buckeye-express.com]
> >  Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:27 AM
> >  To: Jim Jordan
> >  Subject: RE: New A6 Avant ...
> >
> >  Hello Jim.....You are talking about methanol....plain old
> >  methyl alcohol.
> >  Calling it methyl hydrate cloaks it in mystery for most readers.
> >
> >  Doyt
> >  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >  At 07:24 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote:
> >  >Hi,
> >  >
> >  >I'm out of the tax business for a while now;  kept puking
> >  every time I
> >  >saw the IRS code grow.  AFAIK, my ex's accountant just told
> >  her to go
> >  >out and "buy an expensive car", not necessarily an SUV.  Yes, it's
> >  >totally crazy for the US to be subsidizing gas guzzlers
> >  when the pseudo
> >  >scientists keep talking about running out of fuel.  Funny
> >  how the IRS
> >  >has been/is used for social and business "engineering".
> >  That's why I
> >  >favor a VAT or a flat tax, but then that would put 130,000 IRS
> >  >employers and untold numbers of tax preparers out of
> >  business.  Gotta
> >  >keep them around in case someone calls for a strict
> >  accounting, right?
> >  >
> >  >If you feel I'm jaded on the IRS, just get yourself into a
> >  couple of
> >  >serious "audits";  there is no rhyme or reason.
> >  >
> >  >Fuel sources is a very good town hall meeting subject;  it
> >  has already
> >  >been beaten to death at Mensa meetings by people who don't have the
> >  >quals to be discussing it.  Just remember the name methyl hydrate,
> >  >chant it over and over again.  Among other things it is the only
> >  >natural fuel that regenerates itself, however complex the
> >  process is.
> >  >
> >  >Cheers!
> >  >
> >  >Jim Jordan
> >  >
> >  > >  -----Original Message-----
> >  > >  From: cobram at juno.com [mailto:cobram at juno.com]
> >  > >  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 3:47 PM
> >  > >  To: capnkidd at sbcglobal.net
> >  > >  Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> >  > >  Subject: Re: New A6 Avant ...
> >  > >
> >  > >   "Jim Jordan" <capnkidd at sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >  > >
> >  > >  > Her accountant recently told her to buy a new car for
> >  tax expense
> >  > > purposes.
> >  > >
> >  > >  > A Lexus, small SUV ~$50K, and every time I talk to her, she is
> >  > >
> >  > >  Isn't there some sort of huge tax break for buying an
> >  SUV  vs. a
> >  > > car for business purposes?
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >  BCNU,
> >  > >  http://www.geocities.com/cobramsri/
> >  > >  Circular definition: see definition, circular.
>
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Bob
Http://Chips-Ur-S.com