4000s starting issue (no click/crank)

[928s@canada.com]

audifans,

 I had a chance to check the upper & lower smaller
terminals on the solenoid with the key turned to Start.
Both were not lit, but Terminal30 & ConnectionA were as
expeceted again. So I thought that the issue is back to
replacing the ignition switch.

 OK, upon testing: "place the test lamp onto the
smaller terminal (50) on the solenoid. The Test lamp
should light only when the starter switch is in its
Start Position." Thought it was easy as pie. I just
want to make sure which solenoid terminal is giving the
problem. Maybe the solenoid inner is toast?
 
 Kneale, I connected the battery positive using my
booster cables direct to terminal30 and turned the key.
same symptoms except since I was standing outside the
car I could hear a couple relays working/clicking.

 alex v.
early '86 4000s auto
5-Cyl. 2.2
288K Km in Canada


Kneale Brownson  <kneale at coslink.net> to 928s, quattro 
You definitely could be having some wire issues.  For
some reason, those
starter wires deteriorate inside their insulation.  I
started whittling
back bad wires on our 4kq starter circuit because the
ends were nasty and
ended up replacing wiring from up near the firewall. 
Everything in between
was corroded inside the insulation.  While I was going
through this, I had
reports from others that they'd had to go all the way
to the fusebox.

hello audifans,

 after a few days off to think about it, I think i got
to a point where I need some more advice. Before I go
out & buy a refrub starter/solenoid package, I'd like
to test the ignition switch again to make sure. 

The book I have [Audi 4000, Coupe: 1984-87 Manual]
shows a different generation solenoid so I can't tell
which is Terminal50 or Terminal16.
here's my photo/illustration:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/joane.dadie-/solenoid-connectors_4000-1986.jpg
  The 2 big bolts (Term30 & ConnectionA) are labeled
correctly though ConnectionA is blocked by camera's
view. The yellow coated wire looks OK coming from the
battery positive.

Can anyone confirm the upper & lower terminals on the
solenoid? It's ugly trying to visually check in the
engine as it's an oldie/rusty beast.

alex v.
early '86 4000s auto
5-Cyl. 2.2
288K Km in Canada

Huw Powell  <audi at humanspeakers.com> wrote to 928s,
quattro 

>  Well upon the advice of another on how to hot-wire
the
> 4000, I tried connecting a wire between the Solenoid's
> 2 big bolts (Term30 & ConnectionA). Many sparks.

Uh-oh.  The way to "jump" the starter is to connect the
big bolt with a
wire disappearing upwards (this is the battery
terminal) to the correct
small tab that you would have to a pull a connector off
to get at (this
is the "start" wire from the ignition switch).

Sounds like you jumped the battery wire to a ground
stud... no wonder
you got "many sparks"!

> Then a
> turn of the key & only 1 click. Another turn of the
key
> & no engine noise, just fuel pump. Maybe I have the
> wrong 2 connections shorted. I was under the
impression
> the car would start w/o turn of key.?

Well, it would crank (if done as explained above).  It
would also run if
the key was in the "run" position.

By the way, this "starter jumping" should only be done
if you're sure of
what you are doing.

> It's a bit tight underneath the car and I could not
> see any rear mounting bolts.

They are there - the top one comes in the from the
rear, though, and
there is no nut, so you wouldn't see it.  The bottom
one should be
visible below the body of the starter.  Not easy unless
the car is
raised (safely).

>  Is the "Engine to earth Ground" the wire that
connects
> to the front bodywork from nearby the motor oil refill
> cap? If so, mines OK.

No, not really.  Start at the battery, port side
terminal.  There will
be a wire that goes first to the side of the battery
box, and then on
down to a transmission bolt.  That is your main engine
ground wire.

>  alex v.
>  early '86 4000s auto
>  5-Cyl. 2.2