re. CIS-E 3 problems continued...frustrated.

[Alan Pritchard]

Second that, my schrick in my ng caused a lot of setup issues, the
ignition needed lots of advance at idle to be smooth. I eventually have
got it smooth at 16 degrees btdc., by adjusting fuelling afterwards to
smooth it, not the best way, but it likes to be leaned off....
Best Regards
Alan Pritchard 
Network Administrator 
R&M Electrical Group Limited 

Tel: +44 (0)23 8068 5668 
Mob: +44 (0)7870 164812
web: www.rm-electrical.com 



-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of Ben Swann
Sent: 15 February 2005 17:20
To: scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com
Cc: quattro at audifans.com; Ben Swann
Subject: re. CIS-E 3 problems continued...frustrated.

Eric,

Have you made sure that the seal for the throttle body Idle adjustment
screw is in good condition and is turned all the way in.  If this is
passing any air, it can/will cause an idle bounce?  

Also,  are you absolutely sure the idle switch is closing consistantly?

I encountered similar problems when I was sorting out my ELGIN 270
Cammed  heavy breathing 2.3 NG from 87.5GTC now installed in '87 4kq
(Project GTQ).  Along with the initial rough idle, I had a problem
getting the idle to stablize.  I installed/re-adjusted several sets of
switches and swapped throttle bodys a couple of times until getting
everything tight and functioning properly and consistantly.  Once you
get the idle switch closing consistantly and no air passage through the
throttle body (idle bleed screw or throttle plate not closing properly,
etc.) and  the ISV if not defective - will then work as advertised and
raise and lower the idle.  Again the Throttle screw needs to be fully
closed for the system to operate properly - if you find you need to back
it out to keep the engine running, then the ISV circuitry is not kicking
in properly.  

Also, ignition timing will tend to wander if not set right - I have not
figured out exactly the trick, but got mine dialed in by trial and
error.  If your engine is stock, then getting these adjustments dialed
in should be all the easier.   The system also tries to adjust the
ignition timing for you to keep the idle in range which can drive one
crazy if something else is not working.

I was able to get the engine to smooth out at idle by advancing the cam
timing, but did lose a little top end, but it still pulls hard and fast
to the redline.   I found that the high lift and duration cam did not
agree well with getting the NG to idle well, but with adjustable cam
sprocket, I can advance cam 4deg. for reasonably good idle, or retard
cam  4deg. for great mid-top end. Need to re-adjust ign. timing when you
do this to compensate.

Ben


[Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:27:46 -0700 (MST)
From: "Eric S" <scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com>
Subject: CIS-E 3 problems continued...frustrated.
To: quattro at audifans.com
Message-ID:
<1465.192.168.1.233.1108333666.squirrel at www.vintagewatercooleds.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


Symptoms:

Poor cold start (very low idle)
Once warm, idle gets too high and ISV keeps it from going over 1100 rpm
(bounces).
Codes being thrown: Air flow meter and Full throttle switch
shorted/open.

What I have done:

Noted that full throttle switch works perfectly in open loop mode (warm
up), once up to temp, it is ineffectual (does not change DPR current/bog
the engine with too much fuel like during warm up).

Unplug the idle/full throttle switch once warmed up, idle goes up to a
steady 1400 rpm.

Replaced Air flow meter with known good tested unit...no change.

My questions:

I am really confused that during open loop mode the car properly
responds
to the full throttle switch, then when in closed loop ignores it and
throws a code.

Air flow meter...what could cause the computer to think its signal is
bad?

I suppose the bentley would be more revealing, as I could check
resistance
of the pins at the ECU...but that whole full throttle switch thing has
gotten me thinking that its very possible all wires are good, that its
the
ECU at fault here.

What all do you guys think?  Any further troubleshooting suggestions?

New parts so far (related to injection anyway):
air flow meter unit
ISV
O2
Coolant temp sensor
Full throttle switch

This system has re-affirmed my hatred for CIS-E in general...would
appreciate any help here.

-- 
Eric
www.vintagewatercooleds.com

1981 Scirocco S (TDI swap project)
1988 Audi 90 Quattro
1990 Corrado TDI
1991 Cabriolet (2.0 crossflow 8v project)]
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Message from: Alan Pritchard
Message to: [RecipientName]
Date: 15/2/2005

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