but they don't have a n/a v8 with a red-line >8,000 with such good torque characteristics. now that will be something.... mind you getting an ur-q to do 0-200km/hr in under 17 is also something :-) dave '01 s8 (7.2k red-line) -----Original Message----- > And for all that money, its almost as fast as some listers urq's!! :)