89 200 Turbo SAGA goes on ...

[LL - NY]

You have a BOOST LEAK! 

Check the Michelin Man hose as well as the lower Intercooler hose
as I described. This narrows things down a lot, it is a mechanical,
not electrical issue. Check ALL hoses, and also look into the igloo
like air metering head boot. To properly inspect, most of these items
will have to be removed, and flexed. My car's boot
failed a couple of years ago, and the leak was NOT obvious (one of the
little right angle fittings of about 1/2" diameter cracked).

Also, have you checked the crankcase breather hose that runs up the
crankcase vertically from the driver's side of the engine block (It's
2 diameters, about 1inch at
the crankcase, tapers down to about 1/2" at the top, and has a metal
crossover pipe than runs to (I think, now running strictly from
memory) a 3 way hose to the intake manifold. These often get soft and
collapse under vacuum when they fail, or
they clog with sludge. Can be cleaned out using carb/fuel injection cleaner.

You really need to go through Scott Mockry's excellent website, go to
the "Secrets of High Boost" and follow the links for the maintenance
issues one should do BEFORE you modify the car (I know, that's not
your goal, but the maintenance he outlines and gives instructions to
are what you need to do).

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com

HTH, and Good Luck!

LL - NY

On 6/7/05, Cat     ^. .^   ~ <iceisit at earthlink.net> wrote:
> LL - NY wrote:
> >Fay,
> >
> >One thing to consider while looking for a boost leak would be
> >to use the "boost gauge" function of your trip computer (see
> >your owners manual as to how it functions if you don't already
> >play with it. Just pay attention to the driving while you play with
> >it if you're on the road, it can be quite distracting!). If the car is
> >functioning totally correctly, if you are hard on the gas, especially
> >at higher speeds (such as accelerating up an steep highway hill,
> >don't know if you have those in Flagstaff), you should see 1.4
> 
> only goes to .7 for the most part
> 
> maybe 1.0 for a nano second
> 
> >on
> >the gauge and hold as long as you hold the pedal down.
> >If the computer is holding back some boost, (don't
> >recall the all of the conditions for that, although one of these
> >conditions is a non-functioning WGV, see previous posts on that)
> >it'll go to 1.2 and hold.
> >
> >BUT, if you have a fairly substantial intake system leak (like
> >a bad MM (ribbed) hose or lower intercooler hose) you may
> >end up with 1.1 or less, if the leak is QUITE severe, it will have
> >a hard time staying at 1.0 (which means the engine boosts until
> >it reaches outside air pressure (1.0 atmospheres), then the rest
> >of the boost leaks away, but the engine is expecting more).
> 
> yuppers, that sounds like it !
> 
> >Now, two places to check for leaks not mentioned:
> >
> >1.  Lower Intercooler hose. The large about 3" diameter J-shaped hose
> >    that runs from the bottom right of the intercooler (radiator
> >looking thing with
> >    ribbed MM (for Michelin Man) hose that runs to the top right of
> >it, directly
> >    from the engine) to the turbo-charger. They are VERY thick rubber, so they
> >    can sometimes fail, but look intact, and their thickness lets them
> >fake integrity
> >    for a long, long time, (like 16 years). When I finally replaced
> >mine, it was
> >    cracked through 3/4 the way around, and yet the car still ran (not
> >super well,
> >    but it ran). Fixed the car. It's NOT cheap (around $120 about 2
> >years ago), and
> >    is likely a dealer only part, but you need to remove yours in
> >order to find out
> >    which of the two types your car has. One is three pieces with a hard plastic
> >    pipe in it, the other is a single piece rubber hose. BTW, this
> >hose is a pain to
> >   get to, easiest to get to if the front bumper (easy to remove) and
> >grille, are
> >   removed from the car.
> >
> >2. The intercooler itself. The intercooler has an aluminum center
> >section (core) and
> >    plastic end tanks, which are crimped to the core. With time, the
> >crimps can fail
> >   and there is leakage at the end tanks. But, you ask, how can I tell
> >that air is
> >   leaking into ... air?
> >   Easy, because there is a notable amount of oil mixed in intake
> >tract air (don't
> >   really know why, anyone? Bueller?), wherever there are air leaks, there are
> >   oil leaks. Feel the intercooler on the bottom, especially near the
> >end tanks.
> >   If there is oil present, there is likely a leak.
> >
> >HTH,
> >
> >LL - NY
> >
> >
> >On 6/7/05, David Conner <conner at cfm.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> > > Fay asks...
> > > "Are you saying it is the Turbo which is not working."
> > >
> > > Hi Fay,
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is you have a 16 year old
> > > Audi with a turbo attached to the engine.  Turbos create a >lot< of extra
> > > of heat and stress under the hood.  Your car likely has multiple problems.
> > > Maybe a single one is causing it not to start, but there could very well be
> > > a number of poor electrical connections, etc that are degrading performance.
> > >
> > > Compared to a non-turbo engine there are more electrical sensors, wiring
> > > and hoses under the hood.  The turbo generates an extreme amount of heat
> > > which takes a toll on hoses, wiring, plastic, and everything else under the
> > > hood.  The turbo creates a lot of >pressure< in the air intake system which
> > > will cause failure of age/heat weakened components (hoses).  The heat
> > > stress can also lead to a cracked exhaust manifold.  Leaks or cracks both
> > > result in vacuum leaks which cause poor running or no-start condition.  The
> > > turbo pressure >will< blow off a hose if a clamp was accidentally left too
> > > loose.  (A hose clamp could accidentally be left loose by even the most
> > > competent and honest mechanic, BTW.)  Access to many of these hoses and
> > > clamps is difficult and some are impossible to see.  Even if you can see
> > > the clamp, maybe you can't reach it.  A loose clamp may not >look< loose.
> > > You had a recent timing belt replacement... this would require removal of
> > > the intercooler and attendant hoses.  One of these clamps that you can
> > > barely see, let alone reach, may be loose and later the hose blew off.   A
> > > non-turbo engine does not have an intercooler and does not blow the hoses
> > > off or rupture old hoses the way pressure form a turbo will.  Another thing
> > > on the turbo engine which may have been disturbed during timing belt
> > > replacement is the wiring/connector for the intercooler temp sensor.  If
> > > the fragile little wires here are damaged they will short out this sensor
> > > and rob your engine of power.
> > >
> > > Did your car spend years in the rust/salt belt?  If so, this creates more
> > > problems.  Sixteen years of high underhood temps causes deteriorated wire
> > > insulation and connectors.  A poor connection on a single sensor is a
> > > problem.  Cracked wire insulation and hardened rubber wiring connectors
> > > allow salt to enter and corrode the electricals.  Access to some of these
> > > sensors and wiring is difficult.  You cannot afford to replace all the
> > > things on your car that could cause problems in hopes that one of these
> > > things will fix it.  A methodical approach is needed where a problem is
> > > narrowed down to it's source and dealt with.
> > >
> > > Let me give an example from recent experience with my own 89 200Q that
> > > improved performance...
> > > The real problem which prevented the engine from running was a loose clamp
> > > on one of the intercooler hoses... one of the clamps that is hard to see
> > > and difficult to reach.  No doubt it was me who failed to tighten the
> > > clamp.  When I tested for spark it appeared to be either no-spark or weak
> > > spark.  I narrowed the problem down to the coil so I removed it to swap a
> > > known good coil to see if that would help.  It didn't help because my
> > > >real< problem was a loose hose clamp.  I examined the old coil and found a
> > > surprise problem which I suspect is common on these cars.  There is a fat
> > > wire connector pushed on to the bottom of the coil.  I pulled this
> > > connector and found >way< too much green corrosion on it.  This wire
> > > connector would be difficult to examine without removing the coil from the
> > > car, and coil R&R is not easy, so I had never examined it before.  The
> > > rubber connector boot here is supposed to seal out water but was hardened
> > > from old age and no longer doing it's job.  I cleaned up the corrosion,
> > > smeared di-electric grease around the rubber bootie and re-installed it in
> > > the car.  Still no start.  Then I found the loose hose clamp and tightened
> > > it.  Now the car not only starts and runs, but it starts and runs much
> > > better than before.  So... I had two problems... one which prevented the
> > > engine from running at all (loose hose), and a second one which caused weak
> > > spark and reduced performance.  In the end I didn't install a single new
> > > part, but having some known good spares to swap was a big help. I also had
> > > plenty of time to troubleshoot at my leisure since I have a spare car to
> > > drive at all times.  Replacement of the coil with a new one, a $200-250
> > > part, would also have fixed the weak spark.  If I had paid a competent
> > > honest mechanic to fix my weak spark I would expect it to have cost at
> > > >least< $300, maybe a lot more.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Dave C.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > quattro at audifans.com
> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> > >
> 
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