[s-cars] SS line failures yet again

[Pat Martin]

I have, ehem, personal experience in this matter.  While rotating tires 6
months or so ago on my wifes A6 I had noticed that both of the rear brake
lines had some wear to them. I ordered replacements and was planning on
doing them when I did the rear brakes soon there after.  Time went on and
about a month ago my wife had to pound the brakes at a stoplight and one of
them failed. Thankfully the speeds were very slow so the car she hit in
front of her sustained no damage and no one was hurt.  The hitch did make a
nice aerodynamic modification to her grill/hood. Needless to say I will be
paying for that procrastination for a very long time.  

So the point is, that rubber oem lines do fail.  In this case 110k miles.  I
have also seen the same damage on many of the ur S-cars that travel through
my shop. 

I suspect the reason that Peter has seen an inordinate amount of failures on
ss lines is three fold.  

1: The quality of the lines varies wildly.  Since they can be made by just
about anyone, the quality of the line might not be to OEM standards. 

2: SS lines have historically been made for racing applications, not street.
This means that they are actually made for a relatively short life since in
racing replacing lines is standard practice after relatively few cycles of
use.  They were also not made to handle dirt, sand, and whatever else a
brake line is subjected to on the road. Nowadays some are made for street
use and IMNSHO probably are about as good as an oem line is for durability.
There may still be some quality issues however.  

3: We screw with our cars!  I have personally ruined (and still ran them for
one track day) a SS line because I dropped the caliper while replacing a
rear disc.  How often is June Cleaver going to get her rear rotors replaced?
Maybe never.  How often do I replace mine?  On my track car every 6-8 track
days.  I have much more chance of dropping a caliper than June's mechanic
does since I am handling it many more times than he is.  There is also a
amateur mechanic aspect to this that comes into play.  The guy who does this
stuff for a living is more likely to be prepared for the caliper dropping
since he just did it yesterday and 4 times the day before yesterday. Its not
that I think "professionals" don't take short cuts, quite the contrary, some
take many.  However any mechanic who hopes to stay in business longer than a
week will be overly cautious with brake related issues.  

Food for thought anyway.

Pat Martin
95 S6 Avant, IA Stage III, 18x8 RS knockoffs. 255/30/18 PZero Nero's, 

86 4kcsq turbo, 3" "cat" back, Coil overs/konis holding it up, MC and loving
it.  Custom ECU with data logging tuning it, Drilled and stopping it.
Borbet's with Kuhmo V710's  turning it,  K&N and uh....

98 A6q Avant. Aerodynamic hood modifications.  

97 Ford F350 Crew cab, 4x4, GGGGGAAAAAASSSSS.  Never met a station it didn't
like.    

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of john at westcoastgarage.net
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:26 PM
To: Peter Schulz
Cc: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [s-cars] SS line failures yet again

You wrote:  "Filter through the chaff of generalization Brett....

What are the facts behind the  failures?

Plenty of oem brake lines fail too...

Oh btw, if you didn't already know, "speed kills"

-Peter

Now who's generalizing.  I find your statement to be absurd.  I recently 
participated in a conversation of this nature on the 914 Club.  In nearly 35

years of German car repair as my sole and full time employment, maybe 1/10 
of 1% of the cars I've serviced (or were serviced by other techs in my shop)

were equipped with SS braided brake lines.  Of the other 99.9%, all equipped

with the OE or OE replacement rubber brake hoses, I've seen ONE catastrophic

failure, and that was because the guy who installed it screwed up.  I've 
personally repaired 4 or 5 cars with catastrophic failures of SS braided 
brake hoses.  Do the math.  I can personally refer you to numerous other 
techs who can tell you the same thing.  Most failures of OE style brake 
hoses are of the internal swelling type, and are caused by owner neglect and

old age.  I see 20-25 year old (and often more) cars all the time with their

original hoses still quite functional and safe.  The performance improvement

of SS braided hose for the track is questionable, and for the street is 
nonexistent.  I cannot address the bling factor here, because it is 
meaningless to me.  John

_______________________________________________
quattro mailing list
quattro at audifans.com
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
---
Watch this space for ads :)