Super duper fuels, eh?

[Robert Myers]

It's thermodynamics.  No way for it to become more efficient enough to make 
a net gain.  Regardless of what the politicos say, you can't get something 
for nothing.  "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

At 10:15 PM 8/4/2007 -0400, John Lagnese wrote:

>Even if the 10% ethanol has a net of 5% that's still a 5% decrease of energy
>dependency on others (read that shaky belligerent dictatorships). You can be
>sure as the price of fuel goes up, ethanol production will become more
>efficient and prevalent.
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
>Behalf Of LL - NY
>Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:36 PM
>To: William Magliocco
>Cc: brett at cloud9.net; TurboQuattro at shaw.ca; quattro at audifans.com
>Subject: Re: Super duper fuels, eh?
>
>It is not. It takes nearly as much fossil fuel energy to produce
>the ethanol (from corn, anyway, the Brazilians are much better
>off b/c they make their ethanol from cane sugar, which is one
>of their main crops) as the energy we get out of it.
>
>It's a smoke screen, it makes us think we are doing something
>about reducing fossil fuel use, atmospheric CO2 levels, and
>dependency on foreign oil, but it really doesn't help much. Unless
>you're a corn futures broker.
>
>LL - NY
>
>On 8/4/07, William Magliocco <magliocc at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed, Brett.  The cocktail was burned off in less
> > than a week.
> >
> > The 100 in question is the most well sealed fuel
> > system of any car I have owned.  I love to hear the
> > air rush in when I pull the cap off at the gas
> > station.
> >
> > Not wishing to start a flame war, though, I am not
> > convinced that the US approach to ethanol is energy
> > efficient.
> >
> >
> > --- Brett Dikeman <quattro at frank.mercea.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:37 PM, William Magliocco wrote:
> > >
> > > > I once made an ~E-25 cocktail with a 1/4 tank of
> > > E-85
> > > > then the rest 93 octane premium in my '93 100.
> > > Yes,
> > > > the engine liked it better, but the wallet did
> > > not.
> > >
> > > You can't run more than about 20% alcohol according
> > > to the manual, if
> > > I recall.  Damages the seals and hoses.
> > >
> > > Also, ethanol fuel is hygroscopic like you wouldn't
> > > believe.  You
> > > have to use it fast, or have a very well sealed
> > > system, or you're
> > > going to end up with water, and hence rust the
> > > injectors, regulator,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > One of ethanol's many problems as a fuel.  Even in
> > > Brazil, the number
> > > of ethanol cars is dropping, and it is widely
> > > available and (I
> > > believe) cheaper.
> > >
> > > Brett
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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