Super duper fuels, eh?

[John Lagnese]

I mean that we will use less oil which means fewer dollars are sent
overseas. If you are somewhat aware of history you will know that cars today
are indeed more efficient than in years past (using less gas). This is not
something for nothing. The same is true of most appliances and energy
consumption. Clearly, more efficient methods of production of ethanol will
be developed. The numbers portion tried to explain that if, of the 10% of
the fuel is ethyl alcohol, we import 10% less fuel. The energy cost to
produce may be more than the 10 % fuel saved, a more efficient method will
reduce the energy consumption requirements of production. This will result
in a NET reduction in oil used! This has nothing to do with physics, but
with economic survival! I apologize to people who could grasp this concept
without an extremely lengthy explanation.

John

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Myers [mailto:robert at s-cars.org] 
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 11:06 PM
To: John Lagnese; 'LL - NY'; 'William Magliocco'
Cc: brett at cloud9.net; TurboQuattro at shaw.ca; quattro at audifans.com
Subject: RE: Super duper fuels, eh?

 


It's thermodynamics.  No way for it to become more efficient enough to make
a net gain.  Regardless of what the politicos say, you can't get something
for nothing.  "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

At 10:15 PM 8/4/2007 -0400, John Lagnese wrote:




Even if the 10% ethanol has a net of 5% that's still a 5% decrease of energy
dependency on others (read that shaky belligerent dictatorships). You can be
sure as the price of fuel goes up, ethanol production will become more
efficient and prevalent.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of LL - NY
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:36 PM
To: William Magliocco
Cc: brett at cloud9.net; TurboQuattro at shaw.ca; quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: Super duper fuels, eh?

It is not. It takes nearly as much fossil fuel energy to produce
the ethanol (from corn, anyway, the Brazilians are much better
off b/c they make their ethanol from cane sugar, which is one
of their main crops) as the energy we get out of it.

It's a smoke screen, it makes us think we are doing something
about reducing fossil fuel use, atmospheric CO2 levels, and
dependency on foreign oil, but it really doesn't help much. Unless
you're a corn futures broker.

LL - NY

On 8/4/07, William Magliocco <magliocc at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed, Brett.  The cocktail was burned off in less
> than a week.
>
> The 100 in question is the most well sealed fuel
> system of any car I have owned.  I love to hear the
> air rush in when I pull the cap off at the gas
> station.
>
> Not wishing to start a flame war, though, I am not
> convinced that the US approach to ethanol is energy
> efficient.
>
>
> --- Brett Dikeman <quattro at frank.mercea.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:37 PM, William Magliocco wrote:
> >
> > > I once made an ~E-25 cocktail with a 1/4 tank of
> > E-85
> > > then the rest 93 octane premium in my '93 100.
> > Yes,
> > > the engine liked it better, but the wallet did
> > not.
> >
> > You can't run more than about 20% alcohol according
> > to the manual, if
> > I recall.  Damages the seals and hoses.
> >
> > Also, ethanol fuel is hygroscopic like you wouldn't
> > believe.  You
> > have to use it fast, or have a very well sealed
> > system, or you're
> > going to end up with water, and hence rust the
> > injectors, regulator,
> > etc.
> >
> > One of ethanol's many problems as a fuel.  Even in
> > Brazil, the number
> > of ethanol cars is dropping, and it is widely
> > available and (I
> > believe) cheaper.
> >
> > Brett
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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